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[ls150]

Hi everyone,
I am not sure if anyone can offer me any advice, but if anyone has ANY insight it would be really appreciated.

I completed my undergrad in music in 2006, then waited a year and decided to do a masters in musicology. I really enjoyed doing my masters but there were a few issues. I chose to do it initially for interest's sake, and while I was there, I didn't feel like I got the most out of it I could. I took a couple other classes not related to my research, and due to the the volume of students, never had a TA position. There are many things I would do differently, and I don't think I had an experience that has readied me for a PhD.

That being said, it did solidify my main interests: music and art and how they intersect in the avant-garde. When I did my undergrad, I did a minor in art (history), and nearly everything I researched in my masters was related to music and art post WWII.

I took some time off for various health reasons after completing that, and now I am at such a loss of what to do. I do know that I love both music and art, specifically in that time period. I also know I love writing and could also picture myself teaching at the university level.

I feel like I'm in a slump - I work a couple, very unrelated jobs right now, I want to get going and move on with my life, and go back to school. I am considering a PhD in musicology, or doing a combined MA/PhD in art history (although I am not sure that is possible with what I have behind me) Alternatively, I would like to do one or the other, and have a cognate study area as the other option.

I hemmed and hawed about applying this year (to one school), and now have about 6 weeks to decide. The application doesn't require the GRE. I figure it might not hurt to apply. It is for a musicology program... but my professors may be a little irked that I am asking for such a last minute reference.

I know I just have to decide what I want to do, but I am just so confused. I really love both subject areas, and, though it is difficult for me to admit, sometimes I think I would find it more interesting to do art history (as long as I can somehow still include music).

I think I'll stop here, and if anyone has any ideas or advice and can chime in, I would really appreciate it. Maybe it would at least help iron things out for me.

Thanks!

[sciencegrad]

I don't think it would hurt to apply to that one school (except for the application fee, of course).  If you're only going to apply to that one school this time around, your recommendation writers will probably understand.  But make sure that if you are admitted, you are offered funding. 

[ls150]

Thanks for the input. I keep telling myself that I don't HAVE to go if I don't get in. I'm not too concerned about the application fee (or the transcript fees), as in the grand scheme of things it won't really matter. I'm pretty positive I would get full funding (according to the website). I am not sure, due to my master's experience, that I have three good references, but I think it would still be doable.

I hate not giving 100%, which is why I think I am hesitating. But I also think I'll kick myself if I don't try.

There are so many people that know their path or what they want to do, and I wish maybe I had an idea of what I could do in these areas.

[deadchildstar]

What about an interdisciplinary PhD program?

I know for myself, I wouldn't be interested in going back to do another masters (e.g. if you wanted to pursue art history).

There are some programs that let you combine several streams with a major + minor(s). You could tailor the program to your interests. I'm such a program right now...

There are pros and cons to the interdisciplinary degree - I've heard both sides about hiring: you're more versatile, qualified for more jobs, OR you're a jack of all trades.

Typically, it depends on a) whether or not the University has the structure for such a program, and b) whether you can find potential advisors who will sign on.

And yes, you'll need to gather those 3 references, no matter how embarrassing for you, or annoying for them, it may be. If they support you, they'll usually do it last minute or not.

[zharkov]

OP, are you looking for an interesting way to spend the new few year or are you looking for a way to prepare for a job in college teaching?  You need to decide, since while it may be really neat to study art history, or even moreso in an interdisciplinary music/art/cultural studies program, the chances of you getting a full time job teaching college with such a degree are slim to none.   Music is not my field, so I can't comment on that.

[deadchildstar]

Out of curiosity, Zharkov, what should the OP study, then, to prepare for a job in teaching? If we're trying to be helpful to the OP, what are the options?

In my area of study (and country), one's particular academic accomplishments are more meaningful than the specific program, so based on my own experiences, and what I've seen other people achieve (and what I've heard), it's entirely possible to be hired in Art History, or in other departments, depending on how you've carved out your particular expertise. 

[zharkov]

Out of curiosity, Zharkov, what should the OP study, then, to prepare for a job in teaching? If we're trying to be helpful to the OP, what are the options?

In my area of study (and country), one's particular academic accomplishments are more meaningful than the specific program, so based on my own experiences, and what I've seen other people achieve (and what I've heard), it's entirely possible to be hired in Art History, or in other departments, depending on how you've carved out your particular expertise. 

It has been a good 20 years since art history and French lit became the poster children for fields with huge gluts.  (In the US.)  Today, the chances of a person getting a tenure track job in any humanities field are not good at all.   Although it helps to go to a top program, there are no guarantees of ever finding a tenure track job.

So where to find college teaching jobs?  Look outside the humanities.  STEM fields.  Engineering and computer science seem to be coming back.  Business, and even more so, accounting.  Nursing and other health science areas.  SpEd.

[ls150]

deadchildstar - Thanks for your input. I didn't mean doing a masters on its own - I meant a school that didn't require a masters to get into an art PhD program (as my masters is in Musicology). What is your program now? I, too, have gone back and forth with the pros and cons.

zharkov - I am looking for an interesting way to spend the rest of my life, as well as a job in university teaching. Yes, I know it might be hard to get a job. But how will I know unless I try? Is it really not worth it?

[systeme_d_]

The job outlook in fields like Art History is abysmal, with no hope of improving.

I suggest that you take a look at this article, as well as the others by Thomas H. Benton here in the Chronicle.  Just follow the links he provides.
http://chronicle.com/article/Graduate-School-in-the/44846/

[ls150]

Ah, I've read that before.

Well, what the heck do I do?! :)

[voxprincipalis]

I really love both subject areas, and, though it is difficult for me to admit, sometimes I think I would find it more interesting to do art history (as long as I can somehow still include music).

Not for nothing, but lots of fields seem more interesting from the outside; once you really get into them, you see that they have their own kinds of unpleasantnesses. Be sure that your uncertainty about continuing in music reflects a real lack of interest in the material and isn't just a byproduct of "familiarity breeds contempt," especially in comparison to a nice shiny program that looks super from the outside but whose inner workings you don't know as well.

Deadchildstar must have drastically different experiences than I do. I am in music and have taught at three different kinds of institutions in the US. At none of them would we have looked twice at an application for a musicology position without a PhD in musicology unless your application was extraordinarily compelling, and even then it would be a rough go. Arts positions are not fungible.

Do not go into an interdisciplinary PhD program, at least not if music is one of your fields of interest. The odds of getting hired afterwards are even more abysmal than getting a traditional PhD. Pick a traditional program at a school with strong music and art history departments, and work with the other department closely during your time there.

That said, the job market is *extremely* tight. I don't mean "oh, go ahead, take a chance, you'll probably be fine" tight, I mean "you might not ever get a full time teaching job because there are just more qualified candidates than there are positions" tight.

VP

[gekko]

Wow. You are in serious danger of wasting a large portion of your life with absolutely nothing to show for it. Your chances of getting a job are next to none, but it doesn't even sound like that's what you're looking for. If you want an excuse to yank it for several years with no direction, by all means do so. If you tell your mommy that you're going to be a professor and this makes her happy that you're not doing anything, great. But don't lie to yourself. If you don't know what you want to do, a highly specialized program is not for you. If you aren't sure what you want to do in general, no academic program is right for you. (Law, business, Ph.D. included.)

The reason I'm being so blunt is that what you need is not a confirmation of your meandering indecisiveness but a strong kick in the face. If you aren't sure that this option without a doubt is the only thing you want to do and it's worth the risk of potentially never working, or working in an undesirable area for next to nothing, don't bother. Even if this does describe you, you probably shouldn't do it unless you don't need to support yourself financially at all. (Rich dad or spouse? Great. Your own dime? Not so much.)

A graduate program is not a place to find yourself. You will waste a lot of money (even if funded) and more importantly you will waste time which is irreplaceable. The people that go to graduate school with your attitude find themselves in their mid 30s maybe finishing if lucky and still not knowing what they want to do. Decide whatever it is that you want to do with your life and then pursue that relentlessly.

[schoolmarm]

I am also in music, and the only place that I think could/would hire someone with an Art History/Music History combo would be a Community College or a really small SLAC who would need just one person to teach both areas. You don't need a PhD to teach at a CC, well, you don't NEED one, but there are so many underemployed PhDs out there that you WILL be competing with PhDs for these jobs.

If you do decide to pursue the PhD in Musicology, please know that the field is glutted.  We have a great Musicologist at our university, but he is on "contingent faculty" status.  We do not have a tenure line.  Also you will probably want to pick up a minor field or two (theory, conducting, an applied area, etc.) as most music faculty in smaller colleges teach in an additional area. I hope that you like teaching music appreciation to non-majors, as this course is a bread-and-butter course.  However, it is often taught by a full-time tenured/TT faculty member who is teaching it to fill their load, when they really are the clarinet teacher or the choir director, etc.

Hiring across departments is tricky as most faculty lines are budgeted in one department or the other, and I don't really know of any place that would even have a job like that you want. Sometimes faculty lines in education are split, but these jobs come with double the people to satisfy for tenure, the politics can be horrible and the service requirements can be overwhelming.

I am teaching an art/music integration course for Jr. High teachers and THAT course or the one for Pre-School teachers IS offered, depending on what state you are in. Since it is an education methods course, you have to have an advanced degree in music or art education, a K-12 teaching license and at least 3 years of K-12 experience (if your university is NCATE/CPAED) accredited.  I don't think that this is what you are looking for.

Have you considered writing program notes for professional orchestras/operas/ballet companies?  Or maybe working in a museum?

Certainly it is great to learn for learning's sake, but please do not rack up hefty student loans when you have chosen such an esoteric (and glutted) field(s) of study.

[zharkov]

Ah, I've read that before.

Well, what the heck do I do?! :)

Well, as we used to say in the projects:  The world doesn't owe you a living.

[polly_mer]

zharkov - I am looking for an interesting way to spend the rest of my life, as well as a job in university teaching. Yes, I know it might be hard to get a job. But how will I know unless I try? Is it really not worth it?

Why not do something like go back to school for a BS in something useful like engineering and then adjunct a course or two?

How about getting a day job that pays your bills and then teach in an K-16 enrichment program attached to a college?

One rule about graduate school is don't go if you aren't so passionate that you are about glowing with the possibilities and ready to crawl over broken glass to get there.  Your posts don't strike me as having that level of passion.