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[fiona]

Very good about how women have to put ourselves forward, put ourselves first.

http://chronicle.com/blogs/onhiring/negotiating-tactics-for-women/29883

The Fiona

[polly_mer]

While I approve of people being taught to negotiate in legitimate ways, I get tired of the stereotypes that prompt such articles.

The problem generally isn't that women don't know how to negotiate so much as many people who need mentoring the most in that area pick mentors (or skip mentoring altogether) who do not help them learn to negotiate.  People who are drawn to collaborative endeavors or esoteric individual musings aren't going to be the looking-out-for-number-one negotiators since they've purposely chosen endeavors where those negotiations are infrequent and can be ignored much of the time.

Yes, ignoring the "invisible" negotiations comes at a price, but often the best thing that can be done is encourage people to get better at the non-invisible negotiations and gently nudge toward the only-slight-obscured negotiations.

People who are cut-throat driven go-getters generally don't need a nudge to start negotiations instead of accepting the first offer.

[lyndonparker]

Disclosure: I'm not a woman. The CHE has been running a series of negotiating articles lately, which seem intended to make those who have accepted jobs feel poorly about themselves insofar that they "could have done better."

This one, in particular, irked me:

http://chronicle.com/article/Academic-Job-Hunters-Dont/129894/

Professor Blumberg, who admits she didn't negotiate a higher salary when she was hired, is holding seminars for doctoral students advising them to do so.

Sorry, it often doesn't work like this, especially in this environment. At my SLAC, the Dean makes a salary offer that is pretty much set in stone. Every year, we make offers to folks who have been told they can negotiate higher starting salaries, and then are shocked when it doesn't happen. I do agree that moving expenses are negotiable, especially if coming from a distance, and start up funds can vary some, but this type of article gives folks the wrong information.

[tenured_feminist]

I tell my grad students and mentees that the very first thing to figure out is what's negotiable and what's not. And the easiest way to find this out is simply to ask!

A lot of successful negotiation is just about being clear on your own priorities and ensuring that the institutional representative with whom you're negotiating knows your priorities. If there are deal breakers, they need to be on the table from the get go.

Some of the gender and negotiating stuff seems like just so stories that blame women for getting lower salaries because of their own internal attributes. Why don't women get better packages than men because women are more likely to negotiate for the departmental community resources than men (women care more for community), more likely to investigate and negotiate for health care (women are more family oriented and tend more to handle family budgets), more likely to consider moving expenses (women care about The Home), and more likely to get good research packages (because the feminine ethic of care makes them want to fund grad students)?

Gosh, one might suspect there's something structural in the mix . . . .

[cranefly]

Well, I got very bad negotiating advice when I got this job. I was told (by a male) that if I thought the pay was reasonable I should take it. I had never made more than about $20K a year, so of course I thought the pay was reasonable! I found out later that I could have asked for about $20K/year more. I hate the advice that I got, now resent the person that gave met that advice, and I hate that I didn't try to negotiate.

I would advise that it never hurts to try to negotiate. And I agree that women are less likely in general to negotiate--we're taught from an early age to be less assertive than men.

[girasol]

I agree! It does not hurt to at least ask.

Thanks to very astute interventions by two female faculty, I was encouraged to negotiate with the Dean, not aggressively, but firmly. And it totally paid off, netting me a base salary well above the original offer.

I am female, and hate to haggle and negotiate; but my two advisers pulled me through with just a few hours of coaching that I regard as life-changing.

[systeme_d_]

I am a woman, and I love to haggle and negotiate.

Take that, gender stereotypes!

[zoelouise]

Women are judged negatively for negotiating, while men are not.

Hannah Riley Bowles has done some interesting work in this area, summarized somewhat here.