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[merce]

There are a number of little soundbites that make me cringe here, but what do y'all think?

Bussinesses drive curriculum that students take like it or not

[galactic_hedgehog]

It sounds like these programs are preparing students to work in specific fields; a vocational model that CCs employ in addition to preparing students to go on to four-year schools.  The only thing that's really different, as far as I can tell, is having the classes at set times for the entirety of the program.  But, to be honest, I know many colleagues who like having their classes at the same times each semester.

[antiphon1]

These are votech programs.  The downside is only a few of the courses required for the certificates transfer as academic credits to a baccalaureate program.

[betterslac]

It looks like a good model for those types of programs. And I think a significant number of students going to four year institutions would be better served with this type of technical education.

What I don't want to have happen is to have educrats point to this model as the way to go for four year institutions. Students who are getting a higher level of education, as opposed to technical training, need to learn to make choices and should explore various pools of knowledge. Just because we all know Joe the sophomore who is on the 8 year plan doesn't mean that every student needs, or should have, their hand held like this.

[merce]

It looks like a good model for those types of programs. And I think a significant number of students going to four year institutions would be better served with this type of technical education.

What I don't want to have happen is to have educrats point to this model as the way to go for four year institutions. Students who are getting a higher level of education, as opposed to technical training, need to learn to make choices and should explore various pools of knowledge. Just because we all know Joe the sophomore who is on the 8 year plan doesn't mean that every student needs, or should have, their hand held like this.

But, justement, isn't that exactly what this report is saying: higher ed institutions are wanting to spread this model to other places like MidState Uni and Alreadycored Liberal Arts of Piedmont or whatever.

[betterslac]

It looks like a good model for those types of programs. And I think a significant number of students going to four year institutions would be better served with this type of technical education.

What I don't want to have happen is to have educrats point to this model as the way to go for four year institutions. Students who are getting a higher level of education, as opposed to technical training, need to learn to make choices and should explore various pools of knowledge. Just because we all know Joe the sophomore who is on the 8 year plan doesn't mean that every student needs, or should have, their hand held like this.

But, justement, isn't that exactly what this report is saying: higher ed institutions are wanting to spread this model to other places like MidState Uni and Alreadycored Liberal Arts of Piedmont or whatever.

The article posed the question at the end after arguing that this model seems to work well for one and two year programs. But you're right-- I can see some system or state jumping on this for four year institutions (Texas, anyone?)

[melba_frilkins]

"Attendance is taken and makes up about a third of your grade"

Wow.

I hope that a) instructors are not given the burden to distinguish excused vs. unexcused absences, because imagine the begging and whining; and b) they are ok that a student who has perfect attendance but fails the course work at (as low as 55%) will pass with a C (70%).

[spork]

These are votech programs.  The downside is only a few of the courses required for the certificates transfer as academic credits to a baccalaureate program.

Why would anyone want to transfer into a baccalaureate program that requires one to take a useless and expensive smorgasbord of courses?

[merce]

It looks like a good model for those types of programs. And I think a significant number of students going to four year institutions would be better served with this type of technical education.

What I don't want to have happen is to have educrats point to this model as the way to go for four year institutions. Students who are getting a higher level of education, as opposed to technical training, need to learn to make choices and should explore various pools of knowledge. Just because we all know Joe the sophomore who is on the 8 year plan doesn't mean that every student needs, or should have, their hand held like this.

But, justement, isn't that exactly what this report is saying: higher ed institutions are wanting to spread this model to other places like MidState Uni and Alreadycored Liberal Arts of Piedmont or whatever.

The article posed the question at the end after arguing that this model seems to work well for one and two year programs. But you're right-- I can see some system or state jumping on this for four year institutions (Texas, anyone?)

Well, this is Tennessee after all.

[betterslac]

It looks like a good model for those types of programs. And I think a significant number of students going to four year institutions would be better served with this type of technical education.

What I don't want to have happen is to have educrats point to this model as the way to go for four year institutions. Students who are getting a higher level of education, as opposed to technical training, need to learn to make choices and should explore various pools of knowledge. Just because we all know Joe the sophomore who is on the 8 year plan doesn't mean that every student needs, or should have, their hand held like this.

But, justement, isn't that exactly what this report is saying: higher ed institutions are wanting to spread this model to other places like MidState Uni and Alreadycored Liberal Arts of Piedmont or whatever.

The article posed the question at the end after arguing that this model seems to work well for one and two year programs. But you're right-- I can see some system or state jumping on this for four year institutions (Texas, anyone?)

Well, this is Tennessee after all.

True

[polly_mer]

I don't see the problem here.  Of course, I'm coming from engineering where deciding to major in X-type of engineering pretty well sets the curriculum anyway.  Class choices are things like "choose two of these five technical electives" and "choose one of these N humanities sequences.  Complete all three classes in it."  The entire rest of the curriculum is set and people who deviate do so at their extreme peril.

[sciencegrad]

I don't see the problem here.  Of course, I'm coming from engineering where deciding to major in X-type of engineering pretty well sets the curriculum anyway.  Class choices are things like "choose two of these five technical electives" and "choose one of these N humanities sequences.  Complete all three classes in it."  The entire rest of the curriculum is set and people who deviate do so at their extreme peril.

This is my experience as well.  In my undergrad, we were only able to count 6 elective credits and 9 technical elective credits to the BS.  All the rest of the courses were predetermined. 

[secundem_artem]

I don't see the problem here.  Of course, I'm coming from engineering where deciding to major in X-type of engineering pretty well sets the curriculum anyway.  Class choices are things like "choose two of these five technical electives" and "choose one of these N humanities sequences.  Complete all three classes in it."  The entire rest of the curriculum is set and people who deviate do so at their extreme peril.

This is my experience as well.  In my undergrad, we were only able to count 6 elective credits and 9 technical elective credits to the BS.  All the rest of the courses were predetermined. 

You did better than me.  In my BS, my only non-technical elective the entire 4 years was freshman physics.  The rest of the curriculum was set in concrete.

[sciencegrad]

I don't see the problem here.  Of course, I'm coming from engineering where deciding to major in X-type of engineering pretty well sets the curriculum anyway.  Class choices are things like "choose two of these five technical electives" and "choose one of these N humanities sequences.  Complete all three classes in it."  The entire rest of the curriculum is set and people who deviate do so at their extreme peril.

This is my experience as well.  In my undergrad, we were only able to count 6 elective credits and 9 technical elective credits to the BS.  All the rest of the courses were predetermined. 

You did better than me.  In my BS, my only non-technical elective the entire 4 years was freshman physics.  The rest of the curriculum was set in concrete.

How did they justify saying that physics isn't a technical elective?

[secundem_artem]

I don't see the problem here.  Of course, I'm coming from engineering where deciding to major in X-type of engineering pretty well sets the curriculum anyway.  Class choices are things like "choose two of these five technical electives" and "choose one of these N humanities sequences.  Complete all three classes in it."  The entire rest of the curriculum is set and people who deviate do so at their extreme peril.

This is my experience as well.  In my undergrad, we were only able to count 6 elective credits and 9 technical elective credits to the BS.  All the rest of the courses were predetermined. 

You did better than me.  In my BS, my only non-technical elective the entire 4 years was freshman physics.  The rest of the curriculum was set in concrete.

How did they justify saying that physics isn't a technical elective?

Because the content and concepts of physics are not vital to becoming competent in the particular field of study - which was one of the allied health professions.  Biology, chemistry and mathematics are needed across the curriculum, but once you are done with physics, it never comes up again.  Ergo an elective that is unrelated to the technical aspects of the rest of the curriculum.