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[octoprof]

Foreign-Language Instruction, Digitally Speaking
http://chronicle.com/article/Colleges-Map-an-Online-Future/129604/?sid=at&utm_source=at&utm_medium=en

This article wasn't focused on my thread topic, but that's part of the justification for fully online language classes at a traditionally brick-and-mortar university.

Even as online education booms, fully digital language classes like Mr. Fondaw's remain uncommon. But North Carolina's experiment­—driven by growing demand for Spanish instruction, limited classroom space, a shortage of qualified instructors, pedagogical innovations, and cost savings—is one of several efforts nationwide that are starting to map an online future for teaching languages.

It just struck me as off that UNC (Chapel Hill) can't find qualified Spanish instructors. I'm not in the languages, but that sounds fishy to me?  Is it true?

[zharkov]

Sent poisson, as we'd say in (broken? joual?) French.  I think the key is "cost savings."

Almost always, of "shortage" of whatever can be translated:  We can't find ABC at the price we are willing to pay.

   

[octoprof]

Sent poisson, as we'd say in (broken? joual?) French.  I think the key is "cost savings."

Almost always, of "shortage" of whatever can be translated:  We can't find ABC at the price we are willing to pay.

Or, shortage of UNC's interest in hiring more instructors rather than in forcing current instructors to teach more students, more efficiently and cheaply online?

[concordancia]

See, the problem is, many people look at the equation and think there are so many Spanish speakers in the country, it must be easy to find instructors. However, that is ignoring the 18 graduate credit rule. Furthermore, most colleges would prefer to have someone that actually has at least an MA.

And really, truly, speaking a language is not sufficient to be able to teach it. For example, casual (heritage) speakers often don't understand (or use) the grammar rules. Native speakers are more likely to use them, but don't understand why learners are confused. After all, it is obvious and natural.

Unfortunately, even CALICO (Computer Assisted Language Instruction Organization) admits that computers are not a substitute for in class instruction and practice - hybrid courses are ideal for language learning.

[octoprof]

See, the problem is, many people look at the equation and think there are so many Spanish speakers in the country, it must be easy to find instructors. However, that is ignoring the 18 graduate credit rule. Furthermore, most colleges would prefer to have someone that actually has at least an MA.

And really, truly, speaking a language is not sufficient to be able to teach it. For example, casual (heritage) speakers often don't understand (or use) the grammar rules. Native speakers are more likely to use them, but don't understand why learners are confused. After all, it is obvious and natural.

Unfortunately, even CALICO (Computer Assisted Language Instruction Organization) admits that computers are not a substitute for in class instruction and practice - hybrid courses are ideal for language learning.

I am studying a language now and I am an advocate for online courses, but I can't imagine learning what I've learned this semester via an online format.

My current language instructor is a native speaker of the language. She has taught it in her home country to immigrants and has masters degrees in two other languages (including English) and speaks a fourth fluently as well. She clearly gets the grammar (that we so desperately need to understand), thankfully. Because she is perfectly fluent in English (and two other languages) as well as her native tongue, I think she's good at seeing why we are struggling with various idiosyncrasies of her native language that are so so different from English. Gender? Article and adjective endings? Cases? Yup, we have lots of trouble with those.

[concordancia]

Octo, I am sorry. I thought I had made it clear that heritage and native speakers with no educational training often fall into those traps, I did not mean to say, or even imply, that they should never be in the classroom!!

[octoprof]

Octo, I am sorry. I thought I had made it clear that heritage and native speakers with no educational training often fall into those traps, I did not mean to say, or even imply, that they should never be in the classroom!!

I didn't think you did! I was just describing my instructor, who has no degrees in <native language>, which particularly worried me at the beginning of the semester. However, she's been awesome.

[merce]

They have been having trouble finding Spanish Instructors for High School and college for many years now.
There was a state a few years back that would offer a year of tax-exempt status if a person moved to the state to teach Spanish in the schools (Mass.?) Another state (North Carolina?) also had some sort of incentive program to attract Spanish teachers. They were struggling to find people.

I think it's getting worse still.

Even so, it seems universities are interested in hybrid or online language courses because they can avoid paying a faculty member. At some point the instructors will be there and the jobs won't be. Tenn a few years back sought to have online courses that would allow 0 hours of instructional pay to go out. Here our instructors are pushing for more online-ization even though it seems it will backfire in a few short years. They have already suggested our students who want 101 get it through online-only instruction. Why are our instructors pushing this when they are the ones who will lose their positions when things get really bad?

[zharkov]

Here our instructors are pushing for more online-ization even though it seems it will backfire in a few short years. They have already suggested our students who want 101 get it through online-only instruction. Why are our instructors pushing this when they are the ones who will lose their positions when things get really bad?

Lots of us don't want to teach Basketweaving 101 to non-basketweaving majors.  Instead, some of us just want to teach small upper level classes consisting of basketweaving majors.

Yes, it is shortsighted and will backfire.  I have seen it happen, in a sense, but not with respect to online language learning.   

[spork]

The approach to language education in this country is yet another example of providing opportunities for (some) people to learn skills that are not in demand while not providing opportunities for people to learn skills that are/will be in demand.

Non-English language instruction should start in the first years of elementary school, not presented to 18-21 year olds as a "requirement" totally unrelated to the rest of their K-16 education. And if one views language acquisition in purely employment-oriented terms, Mandarin, Spanish, Japanese, Korean, Russian, Turkish, and Arabic are far more useful than the usual French and Italian offered by university systems.

[merce]

Here our instructors are pushing for more online-ization even though it seems it will backfire in a few short years. They have already suggested our students who want 101 get it through online-only instruction. Why are our instructors pushing this when they are the ones who will lose their positions when things get really bad?

Lots of us don't want to teach Basketweaving 101 to non-basketweaving majors.  Instead, some of us just want to teach small upper level classes consisting of basketweaving majors.

Yes, it is shortsighted and will backfire.  I have seen it happen, in a sense, but not with respect to online language learning.   

We, PhDs in literature and linguistics may not want to teach 101 language but instructors in language departments do not.  (I think that's weird but whatever)
Up until recently at least, and those here, language instructors have MAs in a language.  They do not have much knowledge of or any interest in upper-level coursework. They have taken a perhaps one or two classes of literature, linguistics, or second language acquisition.  In fact, they are relatively hostile to what the people with Ph.Ds do: 75% literature 25% linguistics.

There is a bit of a disconnect between the language instruction and the content courses on the Uni campus at this institution but at others as well.
Language instructors often do their job and go home.
Here they are really enthusiastic to transform the department but want us to produce students who speak, read, write, and listen but who will not have a body of knowledge.  I think that is a huge mistake.


As the market tightens those with PhDs in lit and linguistics are looking to get any job to support themselves.  One of our instructors was on the search committee for our 3 VAP and 2 instructor positions last year. He remarked in shock: "There are PhDers who are applying for these jobs! s***!"
He is clueless about the market. He hated the one literature class he had to take at our institution to get the MA.

[spork]

[. . .]

As the market tightens those with PhDs in lit and linguistics are looking to get any job to support themselves.  One of our instructors was on the search committee for our 3 VAP and 2 instructor positions last year. He remarked in shock: "There are PhDers who are applying for these jobs! s***!"
He is clueless about the market. He hated the one literature class he had to take at our institution to get the MA.

You can tell him that we have received over two hundred applications for a language position. First applications to be thrown away are those from people who do not have PhDs.

[watermarkup]

Spork, you should probably include French on your list of economically useful languages. There are a lot of places out there with French as an official language, and in many cases these places feature strategically useful extractive industries or economies that aren't in the toilet.

Personally, I love teaching 101. I didn't like it at first, but by now I've taught it so much that I can get astronomical course evaluations while extending very little effort.

I listened to a presentation recently about a cutting-edge hybrid language program that would provide equivalent education outcomes and reduce the cost of instruction to...exactly what we're (under)paying our adjuncts here.

The experiments in 100% online instruction in languages that I know about haven't gone well, but universities are going to keep trying them. The dream seems to be something like Open Source Rosetta Stone, promising the moon in outcomes while lowering cost of instruction to $0.00.

[merce]

I like 101.
Don't like 201.

Is that weird?

And why can't I seem to get myself to work on the languages I got Rosetta Stone to learn?
I like Rosetta Stone fine but can't get myself to actually open the program regularly.
Hmm, maybe I don't like it so well after all.

[lost_angeleno]

Apparently the linguists aren't cunning enough to survive.