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[chronicler9]

Hi

Does anyone have any experience with finding a lawyer experienced in higher ed issues?

My query is motivated by this thread I started

   Got fired w/o warning in 15 minutes from full-time faculty position
   http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,83669.0.html

and I would like to talk to a lawyer to see what my options are as many of the posters also recommended.

I already sent an e-mail to the AAUP legal referral office, but I am totally clueless about normal severance arrangements, and common payment expectations for legal services.

Do I pay by the hour, or is this contingency based? What is normal etc. Nor how to vet a lawyer who might best represent my interests. Anything else I need to know or look out for would be helpful. This will be my first time dealing with a lawyer (I've managed to lead a happily litigious-free live so far)

I am located in a good-sized city in the U.S.

Thanks.

ps: wasn't really sure which forum to post this in ...

[infopri]

Word of mouth (i.e., personal recommendations) is always the best way to find a lawyer.  Start asking the people you know (off campus) whether they have or know of a good attorney.  If that avenue isn't open to you, I'd try contacting the state bar association and asking them to recommend a couple in your city.  (Then, again, ask around and see whether anyone you know has any experience with anyone on the bar association's list.  It's always easier for people to recognize and respond to a specific name than to come up with names on their own.)

Then pick one and go talk to him or her.  It usually doesn't cost much for an initial consultation, before you've actually retained the attorney.  S/he should be able to give you a feel for how strong your case is and what kind of outcomes are possible.  Then you can decide what to do next.

By the way, if you don't feel comfortable (for whatever reason) with that attorney, you might consider trying another one.  Attorneys are like doctors or anyone else--not every one is right for you.  That doesn't necessarily mean that another attorney will have better news for you, but if you do proceed with any kind of lawsuit, you want to do it with an attorney you trust and feel comfortable with.

Good luck.

[luckychance]

I would call the AAUP. Who knows how long an e-mail response will take or if they'll even respond to your case via e-mail.

[tuxedo_cat]

There has been a series of stories about Kaplan being sued for various reasons (although I don't know if wrongful dismissal is in the mix), so you might see if you can locate any of the legal personnel or reporters who have some knowledge of that ongoing mess.

Here's a brief article from CHE, although it's a few years old:

http://chronicle.com/article/Justice-Dept-Argues-Against/41060

The suggestion to contact the AAUP also sounds wise.

[mdwlark]

Some attorneys charge by the hour, some ask for a retainer.  There are some attorneys who specialize in employment discrimination and procedural violations of employment law.

Remember that in most of these cases, the attorney is a negotiator, so that is what you are looking for--someone who is good at negotiating a settlement and advising you. You want to avoid going to court unless you really have to.  Court would probably cost as much or more than your settlement.  If you are a member of a union, the union may represent you.   

[alleyoxenfree]

Your state bar should have a referral service to employment attorneys.
They may even have a website that is searchable by this.
From there, compile a list of names and look at their websites.
Some handle employee-side only.  These are not necessarily better than those who do both employer-employee - as long as they don't represent YOUR employer.  Most law firms these days list clients on their websites so you can get a good sense of their sensibilities.
Begin calling.
You will be asked questions, usually by a paralegal who answers the phone or to whom the admin sends you; in other words, be prepared to tell your case details many times.  Write it down beforehand.  They will want paperwork: your written contract, pertinent emails, etc.
Call around widely and you'll get a good sense for how they approach things.
Some will offer free consults - take it if they do.  You are under no obligation.  In fact, again, firms that do can do a better job - it really depends on your area, the economy, their philosophy of practice, all kinds of things. 
Be prepared for all of them to tell you that, in their opinion, you should take your marbles and get another job.  Or they may find you are due real money.  In other words, shop around, have several interviews, and go with what the consensus view is and the person you like.
Depending on what state you are in, be prepared to find that all the attorneys in this area are booked and not accepting new clients!  Some places are secret cesspools with a small bar that practices in this area.

In the meantime, though, get focused on job looking.  It will take your focus off the outcome of the legal negotiations.

[infopri]

You want to avoid going to court unless you really have to.  Court would probably cost as much or more than your settlement.

Be prepared for all of them to tell you that, in their opinion, you should take your marbles and get another job

Yes and yes.

Some years ago, I had an academic employer cold for breach of contract.  I went to one of the top law firms in my area, and the attorney I consulted there (who specialized in academia-related stuff) agreed that I had a strong case--but that there was no way that my pockets would be deep enough to pursue a lawsuit.  The problem, she explained, was that the university had far more money to throw at the case than I did, and they could do all sorts of things to drag the case out until I ran out of money (or patience).  In the end, even though I had a good case, she advised me to take all my marbles and move on with my life (which I did).

Still, the consultation was free, and it was well worth the hour I spent there to learn that (a) I did have a good case, and (b) it didn't matter.

[alleyoxenfree]

All university counsels know this and advise the university accordingly.

This is why poisonous idiots within a university, who have been involved in a lot of poisonous dealings, are particularly emboldened and poisonous.

[chronicler9]

Word of mouth (i.e., personal recommendations) is always the best way to find a lawyer.  Start asking the people you know (off campus) whether they have or know of a good attorney.  If that avenue isn't open to you, I'd try contacting the state bar association and asking them to recommend a couple in your city.  (Then, again, ask around and see whether anyone you know has any experience with anyone on the bar association's list.  It's always easier for people to recognize and respond to a specific name than to come up with names on their own.)

Then pick one and go talk to him or her.  It usually doesn't cost much for an initial consultation, before you've actually retained the attorney.  S/he should be able to give you a feel for how strong your case is and what kind of outcomes are possible.  Then you can decide what to do next.

By the way, if you don't feel comfortable (for whatever reason) with that attorney, you might consider trying another one.  Attorneys are like doctors or anyone else--not every one is right for you.  That doesn't necessarily mean that another attorney will have better news for you, but if you do proceed with any kind of lawsuit, you want to do it with an attorney you trust and feel comfortable with.

Good luck.

Thank you infopri, as I don't know anyone who uses a lawyer I will rely on the other avenues you suggested to find one. I agree, it's important to work with someone who I am comfortable with.

[chronicler9]

I would call the AAUP. Who knows how long an e-mail response will take or if they'll even respond to your case via e-mail.

Excellent point, thank you! Will call them.

[chronicler9]

Some attorneys charge by the hour, some ask for a retainer.  There are some attorneys who specialize in employment discrimination and procedural violations of employment law.

Remember that in most of these cases, the attorney is a negotiator, so that is what you are looking for--someone who is good at negotiating a settlement and advising you. You want to avoid going to court unless you really have to.  Court would probably cost as much or more than your settlement.  If you are a member of a union, the union may represent you.   

Hi .. no union here, but you are right, I want someone to negotiate for me. I have no desire to end up in court - everyone looses, me probably more. I want to wrap this up as quietly as possible and get on with my life, but they will have to compensate me for all of this in some way.

[chronicler9]

Your state bar should have a referral service to employment attorneys.
They may even have a website that is searchable by this.
From there, compile a list of names and look at their websites.
Some handle employee-side only.  These are not necessarily better than those who do both employer-employee - as long as they don't represent YOUR employer.  Most law firms these days list clients on their websites so you can get a good sense of their sensibilities.
Begin calling....

Great advice alleyoxenfree, thank you, I will proceed accordingly.

[chronicler9]

There has been a series of stories about Kaplan being sued for various reasons (although I don't know if wrongful dismissal is in the mix), so you might see if you can locate any of the legal personnel or reporters who have some knowledge of that ongoing mess.

Here's a brief article from CHE, although it's a few years old:

http://chronicle.com/article/Justice-Dept-Argues-Against/41060

The suggestion to contact the AAUP also sounds wise.

Hello again tuxedo_cat, thanks for the link and suggestions .. I will follow up with this.

[tuxedo_cat]

Hmmm. . . you know, I had another thought about this.  I'm a bit worried that if you decide to pursue any kind of legal action, when your Chair finds out about this, it will be much harder for you to be able to expect him to provide support for your ongoing search.  At the very least, this would be something he might report to anyone who contacts him about you, and this is precisely the sort of thing you want any SC to avoid finding out.

I have *no* experience with this sort of thing, so I'm hoping someone else may be able to drop in with more concrete advice.  Actually, you might post this question as a follow-up query on your other thread that had a lot more respondents since they'll be more likely to see the question there.

Just a thought.  And sympathies!

[chronicler9]

Hmmm. . . you know, I had another thought about this.  I'm a bit worried that if you decide to pursue any kind of legal action, when your Chair finds out about this, it will be much harder for you to be able to expect him to provide support for your ongoing search.  At the very least, this would be something he might report to anyone who contacts him about you, and this is precisely the sort of thing you want any SC to avoid finding out.

I have *no* experience with this sort of thing, so I'm hoping someone else may be able to drop in with more concrete advice.  Actually, you might post this question as a follow-up query on your other thread that had a lot more respondents since they'll be more likely to see the question there.

Just a thought.  And sympathies!

Thanks for the support.

As for the issue you have raised, I have thought about that too .. but I think they really are afraid of bad press (ie tarnishing their brand) and since I have been a full-time faculty member there for multiple years and most would consider me a credible source, I think they will realize that it's in the best interest to settle this because everyone will loose if this goes to trial.

I have no interest in going to court, but I feel they ought to compensate me for letting me go w/o any warning or issue with the work I've done there. And of course the timing could be not worse for an academic.

Time will tell, in the end, this will all be about trade-offs of some kind or other (like most things in life are I suppose)