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Author Topic: negotiate for associate title?  (Read 2923 times)
msedc
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« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2011, 10:03:02 AM »

At my school, if you "successfully" negotiated a better title people would eye you suspiciously. You would have to decide for yourself whether the fancypants new title would be worth it.

Thanks .. good point. Don't want to raise any ire of colleagues unnecessarily.
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msedc
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« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2011, 10:05:07 AM »

@larryc @systeme_d @afm_man -- thanks, a base salary as high as
possible will be a priority for sure. And I am in a STEM field, so
useful information.
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oatmeal
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« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2011, 10:09:35 AM »

OP--Are you an associate now? If not, you probably stand no chance of this and negotiating for it would probably not go down well. You might get a better salary. Also, you need to be careful on the number of years toward tenure, because you want to make sure you give yourself enough time to meet the requirements at the new institution and that you do not annoy your colleagues there; they will want a chance to get to know you. The alternative is to go in with just one year before tenure (if that is allowed) and then go up. This happens. You have to be very advanced assistant or an associate to do this.

I am a very "advanced" assistant .. I am sure if I had stayed in one place I'd have the rank of associate for sure based on publications and service and teaching, but since I've had a few VAPs after a not happy 3 initial years in a TT position which I left, I am officially still stuck at the assistant level. So, frankly I do feel like an associate, and the whole idea came about wanting to make it "official" but I do see some of the other issues mentioned here, and now I think I will just wait and see if this might come up on its own when I raise the issue of tenure credit.

I plan to ask for 3 years  tenure credit (the max they offer) and the option of coming up early if I'm ready - I've had friends who were able to negotiate that option, but I am not sure how usual or unusual the option to time your tenure process within those constraints.



OP--It sounds like you have made a decision and that seems like a good one to me. To your point of feeling like an associate, well, all that matters is how the institution sees you and what it can offer you. If you were never promoted to associate or made tenure, then you are an assistant, even if you feel otherwise. I know you might feel the opposite but few people will sympathize with that and it might turn off people. I have seen quite a few associates give up tenure and take a demotion to assistant in order to move institutions or get to a higher ranked department. I suspect a lot of them were not pleased but they knew they had to do so. Good luck to you on this endeavor.
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glowdart
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« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2011, 11:03:24 AM »

Another issue to consider:  on some campuses, the handbooks are written such that the onerous service loads are reserved for people with associate or higher rank.  But, this means that people who come in with rank but without tenure are not protected from onerous service tasks or the politics involved therein while they are going up for tenure.

Read that faculty handbook for this school quite carefully. 

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polly_mer
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« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2011, 11:24:15 AM »

Another issue to consider:  on some campuses, the handbooks are written such that the onerous service loads are reserved for people with associate or higher rank.  But, this means that people who come in with rank but without tenure are not protected from onerous service tasks or the politics involved therein while they are going up for tenure.

Read that faculty handbook for this school quite carefully. 

Oooh, that's useful information that I've not seen on these fora before. 
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If you haven't got either the anatomical or metaphorical balls to post your own question on a pseudonymous internet forum, then academia is the wrong job for you.
fedscholar
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« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2011, 01:18:42 PM »

Agreed. I have considered Associate rank, but the extra service expectation on the tenure track are a BIG drawback in my mind.
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luckychance
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« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2011, 01:32:44 PM »

This is so wildly institution dependent that none of us can say what you can or cannot negotiate. When I was hired for my current job I was a full professor being offered an assistant position, which the provost bumped to associate without my even asking! So make some discreet inquiries, it might be possible and it might be absolutely impossible. Do make sure you are not missing out on a salary bump.
You were willing to go from full prof to assistant prof? Is that commonly done? Wouldn't that big a demotion look bad on one's CV? At my previous institution, the titles (full or associate prof) for incoming hires were always kept the same even if tenure didn't transfer, and I just assumed that was the norm.
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polly_mer
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« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2011, 02:47:21 PM »

This is so wildly institution dependent that none of us can say what you can or cannot negotiate. When I was hired for my current job I was a full professor being offered an assistant position, which the provost bumped to associate without my even asking! So make some discreet inquiries, it might be possible and it might be absolutely impossible. Do make sure you are not missing out on a salary bump.
You were willing to go from full prof to assistant prof? Is that commonly done? Wouldn't that big a demotion look bad on one's CV? At my previous institution, the titles (full or associate prof) for incoming hires were always kept the same even if tenure didn't transfer, and I just assumed that was the norm.

I'm not LarryC, but your reaction prompts me to chuckle a bit.

I know of a couple of people who went from tenured full professor with international accolades to postdoc because that "demotion" fit better with their current career goals*.  At some point, caring about the title is silly when one sees a position that one wants, the pay is acceptable, and practically nobody is ever going to look at the CV (would you check the CV of someone like Stephen Hawking?).

When very little is on your CV, then, yeah, titles matter.  If, however, someone has to wade through several pages of publications and presentations to get to the list of positions held after years of interacting at conferences and reading many of those publications in the course of doing research in that area, then the probability that any one line is a deal breaker is low.

*In one case, the guy was a giant in the field, emeritus for a couple of decades, and just wanted a lab to visit a couple days a week when his primary institution kicked him out of the space he had occupied for decades for someone who was going to work 80 hour weeks and supervise dozens of grad students.  No one thought less of him for officially being a "postdoc" in someone else's excellent lab.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 02:50:38 PM by polly_mer » Logged

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luckychance
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« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2011, 02:57:17 PM »

OK, that makes sense.
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