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[msedc]

I have met most (if not all) of the criteria listed for the associate rank at the place I am hoping to get an offer, so I am wondering what the pros/cons are for raising this during negotiations. This would be a TT position and I would hope to get a fair amount of credit (3 years?) for my teaching/publications done elsewhere.

Is this something easy for the school to grant w/o much problems?

Is it worth asking for (ie does having that rank buy me anything other than the personal satisfaction of having attained it, and the possible minor raise in pay?)

I.e., let's say I am concerned about the advanced tenure clock, pay, benefits and this. Clearly the rank is a minor concern relative to the others. I am worried that if I toss in the rank issue, they may just say ok, here's your rank,  and maybe change some of the benefits and then say you got 2 of 4 - be happy, while if I don't put in rank, they may not have an "easy out".

Sorry, I don't think I'm explaining this as clearly as I can, but I hope the gist of it still gets through.

Thanks.

[zharkov]

Is this something easy for the school to grant w/o much problems?

Each school is different, so it can be easy (dean's discretion) to hard (going through a tenure and promotion committee). 

Bring up rank if/when you get a job offer.  In the meantime, read Getting to Yes, an excellent intro to negotiations.

[janewales]

At my university, a hire "at rank" must go through the whole of the normal tenure and promotion process: that means it has to be approved by the department, faculty, and university committees, a process that normally takes months. New letters must be obtained, because letters that form part of a job application file do not usually meet the arms-length criteria for tenure and promotion letters. Furthermore, we cannot make a hire at an advanced rank unless we have approval from the provost to do so, since an associate professor costs more than does an assistant professor.

It would, then, be very difficult here to make an appointment at the associate level out of an assistant-level search. However, a sped-up tenure clock is not unusual; here you might negotiate both a higher starting salary based on experience, and a shorter tenure clock.

[mleok]

I would recommend avoiding the "Associate Professor" title if it comes without tenure, since one often receives a salary bump with promotion, and the salary upon hire can be negotiated on the basis of accomplishments which lead you to believe that you meet the criteria for the associate rank.

In my mind, either you're sufficiently accomplished that you can be hired with tenure, or be put up for tenure within a year of hire, or you're not, in which case the associate rank doesn't really buy you all that much. In most cases, the departmental votes and committees that are excluded from tenure-track assistant professors tend to be related to issues of promotion and tenure, and it's quite likely that as an untenured associate, you'll be excluded from these as well.

Additionally, there are a number of early career awards that you would no longer be eligible for. Schools also differ on whether the associate rank is automatically associated with tenure, so what you're proposing might not even be possible at schools like the UC system.

In summary, you're probably best off trying to negotiate as high an initial salary as possible, and then receiving the salary bump come tenure and promotion.

[mleok]

One caveat, at schools where the associate rank without tenure is a step that is part of the standard tenure-track, such as MIT or Harvard, then it might make sense to request for such a rank. At such places, this would be the equivalent of asking for three years credit on the tenure clock. But as janewales said, this is usually only a possibility if the job ad is for an open rank position or has wiggle room in the form of terms like "appointments may be made at higher rank for extraordinary candidates.

[oatmeal]

OP--Are you an associate now? If not, you probably stand no chance of this and negotiating for it would probably not go down well. You might get a better salary. Also, you need to be careful on the number of years toward tenure, because you want to make sure you give yourself enough time to meet the requirements at the new institution and that you do not annoy your colleagues there; they will want a chance to get to know you. The alternative is to go in with just one year before tenure (if that is allowed) and then go up. This happens. You have to be very advanced assistant or an associate to do this.

[obprof]

At my school, if you "successfully" negotiated a better title people would eye you suspiciously. You would have to decide for yourself whether the fancypants new title would be worth it.

[afm_man]

In STEM fields, be aware that by getting the title of associate prof, you can exclude yourself from many of the early career awards available.  I assume there are early career grants in the humanities also?

I agree with mleok - it would be more beneficial to negotiate a higher salary rather than title.  At my institution, we have assistant profs. that make more than full profs.  Not that this is a good thing, but if you are successful, you will get the title in due time.  However, you will likely only get one chance to negotiate salary.

[systeme_d_]

In STEM fields, be aware that by getting the title of associate prof, you can exclude yourself from many of the early career awards available.  I assume there are early career grants in the humanities also?

No, there aren't.  But there is usually a semester-long leave during which one is to pursue one's research. 

I think the OP needs to make some inquiries at the hiring department.  In my humanities field, few departments can (or will) hire at the associate level when they've advertised at the assistant level.  Even if all the OP wants is a few years' credit on the tenure clock (rather than the rank of associate), the OP should be careful about sabotaging him or herself.   Will the OP's publications at the current place count toward tenure at the new place? They may not.  Will the OP be able to do sufficient service at the new place to qualify for tenure? Possibly not.  It is possible that being hired on a shortened tenure clock might not be a good idea.

[larryc]

This is so wildly institution dependent that none of us can say what you can or cannot negotiate. When I was hired for my current job I was a full professor being offered an assistant position, which the provost bumped to associate without my even asking! So make some discreet inquiries, it might be possible and it might be absolutely impossible. Do make sure you are not missing out on a salary bump.

[msedc]

Is this something easy for the school to grant w/o much problems?

Each school is different, so it can be easy (dean's discretion) to hard (going through a tenure and promotion committee). 

Bring up rank if/when you get a job offer.  In the meantime, read Getting to Yes, an excellent intro to negotiations.

Thanks ... do you see a downside to asking or having this?

(sorry for the tardy reply, for some reason the notification on this thread were turned off)

[msedc]

At my university, a hire "at rank" must go through the whole of the normal tenure and promotion process: that means it has to be approved by the department, faculty, and university committees, a process that normally takes months. New letters must be obtained, because letters that form part of a job application file do not usually meet the arms-length criteria for tenure and promotion letters. Furthermore, we cannot make a hire at an advanced rank unless we have approval from the provost to do so, since an associate professor costs more than does an assistant professor.

It would, then, be very difficult here to make an appointment at the associate level out of an assistant-level search. However, a sped-up tenure clock is not unusual; here you might negotiate both a higher starting salary based on experience, and a shorter tenure clock.

Ah .. very informative, thanks.

I did think that it might be difficult to advertise for an assistant rand and then convert it to associate on hire. I will definitely ask for come credit toward tenure and the *option* to come up early for tenure.

[msedc]

Additionally, there are a number of early career awards that you would no longer be eligible for. Schools also differ on whether the associate rank is automatically associated with tenure, so what you're proposing might not even be possible at schools like the UC system.

In summary, you're probably best off trying to negotiate as high an initial salary as possible, and then receiving the salary bump come tenure and promotion.

Thank you .. excellent advice. I might see if I can come up for promotion (if that's separate from tenure) to associate rank perhaps in a year after being there if that's possible.

[msedc]

One caveat, at schools where the associate rank without tenure is a step that is part of the standard tenure-track, such as MIT or Harvard, then it might make sense to request for such a rank. At such places, this would be the equivalent of asking for three years credit on the tenure clock. But as janewales said, this is usually only a possibility if the job ad is for an open rank position or has wiggle room in the form of terms like "appointments may be made at higher rank for extraordinary candidates.

Well, this is not going to be anything like MIT or Harvard, this is a SLAC .. I do plan on asking for credit (3 years) on the tenure clock.

I'll see what they say, for all I know they may add the rank as part of the tenure credit in their offer (should there be one, which I hope there will)

[msedc]

OP--Are you an associate now? If not, you probably stand no chance of this and negotiating for it would probably not go down well. You might get a better salary. Also, you need to be careful on the number of years toward tenure, because you want to make sure you give yourself enough time to meet the requirements at the new institution and that you do not annoy your colleagues there; they will want a chance to get to know you. The alternative is to go in with just one year before tenure (if that is allowed) and then go up. This happens. You have to be very advanced assistant or an associate to do this.

I am a very "advanced" assistant .. I am sure if I had stayed in one place I'd have the rank of associate for sure based on publications and service and teaching, but since I've had a few VAPs after a not happy 3 initial years in a TT position which I left, I am officially still stuck at the assistant level. So, frankly I do feel like an associate, and the whole idea came about wanting to make it "official" but I do see some of the other issues mentioned here, and now I think I will just wait and see if this might come up on its own when I raise the issue of tenure credit.

I plan to ask for 3 years  tenure credit (the max they offer) and the option of coming up early if I'm ready - I've had friends who were able to negotiate that option, but I am not sure how usual or unusual the option to time your tenure process within those constraints.