next »

[gsawpenny]

The Huffington Post took a pot shot at several fields of study and their relative value upon graduation - the link is below.  I only saw this because I am an historian (employed, thank you very much) surrounded by fine friends who enjoy making fun of my passions and work.

The questions - Is your ox gored here?  Is the list right? Is this a sign that we need to fix the system or that people don't understand the intent of a university education?

The comments in the article are a hoot!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/08/the-11-majors-with-the-hi_n_1081625.html?ref=college&icid=maing-grid7%7Cipad%7Cdl23%7Csec1_lnk3%7C110899

[melba_frilkins]

Is the list right? No, not really.

The first thing listed was "Clinical Psychology" with unemployment at 19.5%. And I thought, wtf, who majors in "Clinical" psychology as an undergraduate? That is just weird. A person can't be a clinical psychologist without a graduate degree, so yeah, a bachelor's degree in clinical psych is going to be a problem. Then I noticed that out of all the degrees it was among the least common (168 out of 173). So why are they headlining with a rare degree that hardly anyone earns? Oh, because it's exciting to suggest that a very popular degree (general psychology) is useless.

Contrast this with the actual unemployment rate (6%) associated with a plain old "Psychology" degree, which the Huff Post article doesn't mention, of course, even though it's the 5th most popular degree (per the original Wall Street Journal report).

[pigou]

According to recent census data, Psychology is actually the worst paid degree over a lifetime: http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2073703_2073654_2073673,00.html

The answer, of course, is not that psychology is worthless. Rather, it attracts a lot of women, who ended up working part-time or staying home, rather than pursuing a full-time career in the field. Moreover, psychology lacks the kind of weed-out classes you'd find in engineering (various branches of which make up 8 of the top 10 majors), so the graduates you get presumably have different characteristics aside from their field of study.

[crowie]

I guess that must vary by institution as I strongly remember Psych 101 at my institution being a "weed-out" course that was designed to be very challenging.  The major was so popular with freshman students who didn't really know what they wanted to do that the faculty actually wanted to enforce standards to keep the major from losing status.

[msparticularity]

According to recent census data, Psychology is actually the worst paid degree over a lifetime: http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2073703_2073654_2073673,00.html

The answer, of course, is not that psychology is worthless. Rather, it attracts a lot of women, who ended up working part-time or staying home, rather than pursuing a full-time career in the field. Moreover, psychology lacks the kind of weed-out classes you'd find in engineering (various branches of which make up 8 of the top 10 majors), so the graduates you get presumably have different characteristics aside from their field of study.

In many states, too, people (many of them women) with an undergrad psych degree can work in social services--which really does pay very badly.

[melba_frilkins]

I'm not trying to say a bachelor's degree in psych is a great degree. At least, it's not if you're looking at employment. It was never intended as a terminal degree so that you can get job X. (Unfortunately, it has become an overly popular terminal degree

Nonetheless, it's misleading for the article to highlight the stats for "clinical" psych programs without at least putting a disclaimer that says, "dear reader, we know you'll assume these stats are true for general psychology programs, but they are not, we're only talking about the odd-ball clinical psychology BAs in particular".

And unrelatedly, I was looking at the complete listing again, and noticed that nursing is #4 in "popularity" (above psychology, marketing & market research, communications, and every thing else). Really? Are there that many nursing programs out there with slots for that many students? I find that hard to believe. Though I'm not sure exactly what they mean by "popularity".

[bud04]

I was surprised by architecture.

[melba_frilkins]

I was surprised by architecture.

Doesn't architecture have license requirements beyond the degree? Presumably the stats we're looking at include all graduates, whether they managed to get licensed or not.

[mountainguy]

Similar to Melba's point, one needs a master's degree to advance as a professional librarian. At least in my last city, people with an MLS seemed to have no trouble finding employment.

[punchnpie]

I'm a bit confused by the use of 'major.' Are they talking about undergrads or what? Librarianship is a masters program in this country. There are some issues with librarians not retiring in the numbers they powers that be thought they would (kinda like humanities profs), but the field is so broad, it's difficult to paint the job picture with a broad brush.

In a single masters program, students with the same degree can wind up being digital collection developers & managers, cybersecurity administrators, policy analysts, ed technology folks, sales and trainers for hardware and software vendors, law librarians, medical librarians, etc., etc. The masters program at my doctoral school sent students to Google, Intel & Microsoft.  There are jobs in the field, especially if you are in one of the tech-related fields, in a specialty like medical librarianship, or if you are willing to move.

I'm surprised to hear about clinical psychologists. Are they saying that trained psychologists with advanced degrees have high unemployment? Interesting.  Architecture has always been iffy. It's very romantic and interesting in the movies, but there are all kinds of steps and work experience necessary to take before one is actually an architect which keeps the pay relative low in the early years.

[mystictechgal]

This makes no sense. Like Melba, my first thought was, "Can you even be a clinical psychologist with only an undergraduate degree?" Looking at the complete list I see that Astronomy and Astrophysics has a unemployment rate of 0.0% and 25th percentile earnings of $56K, 75th percentile at $101K. For someone just out of school and/or with no more than an undergraduate degree?

I want to see the methodology for this one. For one thing, it is supposedly predicated on census data. Did they correct for those who earned their undergrad in one subject area but took jobs in a different sector? Did they equate "major" with whichever subject matter the individual last earned a degree in, without taking the degree level into regard? Did they look only at the undergraduate major without taking into consideration advanced degrees that may/may not have been earned in the same area? Does the census even ask questions that would drill to these different levels? I seriously doubt that it does. If memory serves, it asked, at best, what was the highest level of schooling you attained, possibly what your degree (if attained) is in, and, if employed, in what area. Unless they did a whole lot of additional parsing and possible follow-up surveys, this seems most like a comparison of apples to oranges to grapefruits, with some kielbasa tossed in on the side.

[merce]

Yep, of course my discipline is there.

[melba_frilkins]

I'm a bit confused by the use of 'major.' Are they talking about undergrads or what?

I think they are talking about undergraduate degrees. That was my gut impression at first. And looking more carefully for terminal degrees like law (instead of pre-law) or an M.D., I can't find those.

Sloppy presentation of poorly gathered data.

[gsawpenny]

Great, I teach in a bottom-feeder field and now the "online gold and silver buyers" are after me when all I have to sell are pearls of wisdom.

[mended_drum]

I'm not trying to say a bachelor's degree in psych is a great degree. At least, it's not if you're looking at employment. It was never intended as a terminal degree so that you can get job X. (Unfortunately, it has become an overly popular terminal degree

What confused me is that an undergraduate degree in psychology seems too vague when it can be either a B.A. or a B.S.  Surely, that makes a difference.