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[bourbonrose]

Needed: a list of reasons to supply when the question "Can I get my septum pierced?" comes up again, and I say, "No" again, and she asks, "Why?" again.

So far "Because it could get infected" and "Because you might decide later that you don't want it any more" are working, but I know the issue hasn't gone away.

At least she was impressed at my correct answer to "Do you even know what a septum is?"

[prytania3]

Needed: a list of reasons to supply when the question "Can I get my septum pierced?" comes up again, and I say, "No" again, and she asks, "Why?" again.

So far "Because it could get infected" and "Because you might decide later that you don't want it any more" are working, but I know the issue hasn't gone away.

At least she was impressed at my correct answer to "Do you even know what a septum is?"

Prylet only wanted an ear pierced, which he let grow back, but he really wanted a tattoo. I said, "You show me a tattoo, I'll show you laser surgery." He never got one either, and now he's glad he didn't. It was like the only thing he listened to me about.

There's going to be a whole generation of old people inked up, and they're going to look really dumb.

As for the septum, tell her you won't risk having her have some groteseqe infection that will cause x, y, and z.

As a parent, I had a few successes. Keeping the tattoos off is one of them.

[quotiazelda]

Eldest Zelda really wants snakebite piercings. My answer so far has been "Only ears until you're 18." Places around here are very strict about getting permission for kids under 18, and there's no way I or Mr. Zelda will give permission. I'm generally opposed to face piercings, and I've pointed out to her that even when piercings are removed and allowed to grow back, they often leave a mark or scar. My hope is that by 18 she won't want the snakebites any more.

I'm less opposed to tattoos (I have one myself), though again the Little Zeldas have to wait until 18, and I've talked with them a lot about 1) waiting until you know the design is something you want to live with forever, and 2) choosing placement very carefully.

[theatremom]

Theatreboy (17) has multiple piercings: snakebites, eyebrow, tongue, ear guages. He worked, paid for, and took care of them all himself. He wanted a septum piercing, which I was concerned about. Because it's a cartiledge piercing, and because it's in the nose, there really is a greater chance of infection, and its placement makes it difficult to keep clean. I had some luck getting a mutual friend who has such a piercing to talk to Theatreboy, not about the risk of infection or the fact that most employers weren't going to let him keep it in during working hours, but about how painful it was to have done and how long it took to heal completely. Being no great fan of pain, Theatreboy changed his mind.

He wants tattoos, and will probably get them soon, but the minimum age around here is 18, so he's going to have to wait at least until then. Probably longer, since he's going to have to pay for them himself.

We just decided a couple of years ago that the constant fighting over what is, at the end of the day, his body, was pointless. He's always been kind of an alternative kid; it's part of his personality and I don't see it changing. But he's also smart and funny, he has a huge heart and is both kind and intensely loyal to his friends and family. He's working part-time as a glorified gofer for a small HVAC company, and as long as he does whatever the guy he's working with tells him to do, no one at the company could care less about piercings or tattoos.

[tamiam]

I don't even want to know what a snakebite is.

Oh. Wait....isn't it some sort of a drink with whiskey and lime juice?


As for the septum piercing, sometimes it seems like they ask for things that they know that answer will be "no" to, just to see what the limits really are and whether we're really willing to hold them. It seems like there's some part of them that has to bounce hard against the fence because they know they need the fence and as it expands in some areas they have to check it in others.

[tenured_feminist]

Thanks, Pry. Bookmarking (and shuddering about the thought of piercing/tattoo conversations).

We aren't quite there yet, but Mr. T_F and eldest TFemling are already starting. Mr. T_F has a contract in his head with the kid in which we parents provide a cushy home and supportive environment generally and the kid reciprocates by helping out willingly and cheerfully with minor tasks like laundry, cleanup, etc. whenever Mr. T_F asks. The kid's contract in his head with Dad reads that he does exceptionally well in school and manages his own extracurricular schedule effectively, keeping all various and sundry balls in the air, and as a reward he gets to play Minecraft or watch videos on YouTube, and is only obligated to help out willingly and cheerfully when he's done with that particular segment of the game or the particular video he just started.

They are driving me up the effing wall.

[tamiam]

Thanks, Pry. Bookmarking (and shuddering about the thought of piercing/tattoo conversations).

We aren't quite there yet, but Mr. T_F and eldest TFemling are already starting. Mr. T_F has a contract in his head with the kid in which we parents provide a cushy home and supportive environment generally and the kid reciprocates by helping out willingly and cheerfully with minor tasks like laundry, cleanup, etc. whenever Mr. T_F asks. The kid's contract in his head with Dad reads that he does exceptionally well in school and manages his own extracurricular schedule effectively, keeping all various and sundry balls in the air, and as a reward he gets to play Minecraft or watch videos on YouTube, and is only obligated to help out willingly and cheerfully when he's done with that particular segment of the game or the particular video he just started.

They are driving me up the effing wall.

I like that contract in the head thing. Thanks.

Not that understanding it is going to change anything around here.

You know what's going to change things around here? The fact that my 14 year old is going to winter season boarding school in a week and a half. He wants it, he worked for it, and he'll be in a very structured environment where he has real responsibility for managing his life without my being the heavy. Or, for that matter, the chauffeur, charwoman, chief cook and bottle washer, or any of the other service roles he seems to think I'm supposed to play.

[notaprof]

All in all, the teenaged years were not as bad as I feared they would be.  I never felt the need to rebel against my parents and my kids never went through a particularly rebellious stage.  However, I have been shocked recently to hear of some things they did as teens that I was never aware of at the time.  I am glad they survived to their 20s.

My two boys begged for tattoos from the time they were in the third and fourth grade until high school and they finally dropped it.  I like to remind them that if I had allowed it then, they would now have pictures of Ninja Turtles or MC Hammer on their bodies now. I did allow them to get their ears pierced about that time and they quickly lost interest in the care required and just took the earrings out and let them grow back.  They are still tattoo free in their mid 20s now.

My daughter on the other hand never mentioned tattoos at all (although she does have mutiple ear piercings) but then she turned 18 and went and got one on her shoulder without warning.  I cried.  She has added one more on her foot since then.  I still don't like them but it is her body and her money (I was shocked at how expensive they are) so I don't say anything.  On of her best friends from grade school is a tattoo artist and she is covered with tattoos so I feel blessed that my daughter only has two.  She also has a nose piercing but those no longer bother me and it looks cute.

I saw a woman at a craft fair this weekend who had to be in her 70s with a full sleeve tattoo. It looked pretty silly on her, I have to say.  

[quotiazelda]

The Little Zeldas and I have had many a laugh over this tattoo placement chart:
http://www.cracked.com/funny-298-tattoos/

[testingthewaters]

No teenagers to discuss (I'll need another 13.5 years to get to that) but just chiming in on the tattoo discussion.

My youngest sister is covered- I tell you, covered- in tats. She gets them symbolizing monumental decisions/moments in her life. I can understand wanting to memorialize that, and hers are quite pretty and look good, but I do wonder how she's going to feel about them in 20 or 30 years. That, and if she keeps adding to the collection, eventually she's going to run out of skin.

In the meantime, she's moved to a very warm city, where she has a job where she has to keep them covered. Cardigans in 100+ degree weather would be enough to discourage me from getting more, but apparently it doesn't work that way for everyone.

[concordancia]

No teenagers to discuss (I'll need another 13.5 years to get to that) but just chiming in on the tattoo discussion.

My youngest sister is covered- I tell you, covered- in tats. She gets them symbolizing monumental decisions/moments in her life. I can understand wanting to memorialize that, and hers are quite pretty and look good, but I do wonder how she's going to feel about them in 20 or 30 years. That, and if she keeps adding to the collection, eventually she's going to run out of skin.

In the meantime, she's moved to a very warm city, where she has a job where she has to keep them covered. Cardigans in 100+ degree weather would be enough to discourage me from getting more, but apparently it doesn't work that way for everyone.

2007 job hunting advice in CoolTown: If you don't have piercings or tats, you best really stand out from the crowd.
2011 job hunting advice in CoolTown: COVER 'EM, HIDE 'EM! If the company culture allows it, you can let them shine later. There are actually still a few places where they are preferred, but my friends who have jobs, not careers, have definitely noticed a difference.

[quotiazelda]

One thing that has worked really well for us (so far) is giving Eldest Zelda her allowance on a debit card. She uses it for going to the movies or for ice cream/etc. with her friends, and for topping up her Starbucks card and buying things like songs from iTunes or yet another pair of Converse or Vans (Although we buy her clothes, another pair of Converse when she already has 4 has to come out of her allowance. When she's older, we may up her allowance and have her buy her own clothes as well). It's been good practice for her managing her money on a monthly basis - and seeing how quickly savings can add up when you use a little discipline.

(The other upside is that we don't have to remember to get cash for her allowance - we use debit cards for almost everything and never have cash on hand.)

We use a Visa Buxx card; there are others out there through other CC companies. Ours is linked through our credit union, so there are no fees beyond the $5 set-up fee and a modest ATM fee if used outside the (fairly extensive) credit union ATM network, plus I can fund her account easily through my credit union checking account. There is also the option to have overdrafts pulled from my account, but I didn't set that up. If she goes over, her card gets rejected.

You can get these teen debit cards through various banks and credit union, but the fees vary a lot, so if you want one, investigate carefully. Not surprisingly, our credit union had the lowest fees of the several options available to us.

Although I know that Visa is not offering these cards out of the goodness of their altruistic hearts, and I do have some thoughts about cultivating another little devotee of card culture, the positives outweigh the negatives for us.

[punchnpie]

This talk about tattoos, etc. is interesting. Personally, I like a little ink. Mr Punchnpie had some simple, homemade (yes, you can tattoo yourself), tattoos. I came up in the '70's when long hair on males was the norm, so I don't have a problem with that either. I don't care if it is dyed blue, whatev.

Punch jr, on the other hand, never wanted any of that stuff. I'd even tell him it was OK to get a small tattoo, and he was completely against it. The only continuing disagreements we had were over hair length - I always thought he cut it too short. At one time, Punch jr entertained the idea of a career in the FBI, NSA, etc. and has always been pretty straight arrow. This saved us from a lot of teen angst, yes, but was always confusing to me. Didn't he at least want at least an earring?

The dynamic was often like that between Alex P Keaton and his parents.

[msparticularity]

Eldest Zelda really wants snakebite piercings. My answer so far has been "Only ears until you're 18." Places around here are very strict about getting permission for kids under 18, and there's no way I or Mr. Zelda will give permission. I'm generally opposed to face piercings, and I've pointed out to her that even when piercings are removed and allowed to grow back, they often leave a mark or scar. My hope is that by 18 she won't want the snakebites any more.

I'm less opposed to tattoos (I have one myself), though again the Little Zeldas have to wait until 18, and I've talked with them a lot about 1) waiting until you know the design is something you want to live with forever, and 2) choosing placement very carefully.

This was pretty much my approach, too, and it seemed to make a fair amount of sense to my daughter. I was also quite relaxed about experimental hair colors and henna tattoos, since those would grow out and/or fade. Her father got a little more excited about them, but he also finally agreed that it was not worth battling over stuff that was temporary, and loosening up on that also lessened the nagging about body piercings and permanent tattoos.
 

[quotiazelda]

I came up in the '70's when long hair on males was the norm, so I don't have a problem with that either. I don't care if it is dyed blue, whatev.

Both Eldest Zelda and her younger sister have experimented with wild hair colors. I don't have a problem with it, having done a bit of experimenting with hair my own self; Mr. Zelda is less enthused. The main problem is that their hair is so very dark and has to be bleached like crazy for the color to take. We've used the Color Shock dye, which is made to show up on dark hair, and that worked pretty well, but even that bleached the hair out some to a dark orange-ish auburn. So, growing out is a pain.

These days, permission to dye hair works as a reward for good grades works pretty well as a motivator and helps cut down on lackluster performance because of not turning homework in (a perennial problem at the Zelda house).