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[heartandheaded]

Hello all,

I am considering pursuing a career in Student Affairs with the goal of rising to Assistant/Associate Dean of Student Life/Multicultural Affairs. In light of my desire to raise and homeschool future children, however, I also desire a high degree of career flexibility and the ability to be self-employed during particular periods along the way. I am currently Registrar at a very small school and wonder whether it is best to remain in my post for 3-5 years to make myself more competitive for Student Affairs positions or to pursue a MSW full-time with the intention of re-entering the student services side of higher ed and practicing psychotherapy privately on the side.

For some backstory, I graduated from an elite LAC a couple of years ago with a BA in Sociology. Shortly thereafter, I began an administrative assistant position at a tiny college where my level of performance and initiative were immediately met with praise and opportunities for increased responsibility. Due to an unexpected shift in personnel, I was promoted to Registrar a few months ago-- being so small, the school's Office of the Registrar does not include any Associate or Assistant Registrars.

While not my sole career goal, deanship is a career that I have contemplated since my undergraduate days and is a direction that I would like to explore further. At my alma mater, I worked closely with a number of my school's deans around issues of diversity and multiculturalism doing curriculum development, workshop facilitation, and relevant event coordination. Deanship appeals to me because I found that I enjoyed counseling and supporting young people in a collegiate environment and would love the opportunity to develop innovative programming related to issues of social difference and models of "contemplative education". Within the context of higher ed admin, this career path is infinitely more appealing to me than that of a Registrar given the higher degree of creativity and personal engagement required. My sense is that a position such as Assistant (or ideally, Associate) Dean of Student Life or Multicultural Affairs might eventually be ideal for me in many ways.

Given my desire for geographic control over my job placement and flexible scheduling (mostly in the interest of raising and homeschooling future children), I hesitate to put all of my career aspirations in the higher ed admin basket, however. I strongly desire the ability to be self-employed, at least during particular periods in the future, despite my enjoyment of working in an academic setting. To this end, I have applied and been offered admission (as well as an excellent financial aid package) to the best clinical social work Master's program in the country. The program includes a two-year full-time clinical internship-- the second half of which I expect to be in a college/university counseling center. I will also complete a thesis for which I could conceivably conduct research about student mental health and social identity in collegiate environments. My thinking has been that earning the MSW followed by clinical licensure would enable me to practice psychotherapy privately and effectively set my own schedule so I am able to raise future children on my terms. Further, I am told that it is sometimes possible to land Assistant Deanships of Student Life/Multicultural Affairs/etc with a degree in social work, particularly if you have previously practiced social work in a collegiate setting. I am not sure how prevalent this is, however.

In short, my question is whether it is wiser to remain in my Registrar position for 3-5 years or to pursue my MSW in the coming year, given my stated goals and priorities.

One option is to stick with the current Registrar position for 3-5 years, sit on committees at the school to build my experience, and draw upon my skills and background in multicultural affairs to spark initiatives that will build my resume. Then eventually, I could just jump into a Student Affairs position at another smaller school or get an MSW with which I could (hopefully) both work in Higher Ed and practice psychotherapy privately so I can have some career flexibility as a future mother.  My major caveat here is that it takes a minimum of 4 years from the start of an MSW to be able to open a private psychotherapy practice and even longer to build a full practice capable of generating a strong income...I estimate a minimum of 6 years. While I am only 22 years old now, I am wary of delaying MSW training too long because I do not want to have to delay having children into my mid- to late-thirties out of financial necessity and/or a prohibitive work schedule. I also wonder how easy it will be to transfer from a Registrar position to a Student Life/Multicultural Affairs/Counseling one despite the measures I could take to fill-out my resume by sitting on committees and initiating special projects. Given my age, virtually any type of work experience would seem helpful for future employability but I'm curious as to whether having 3-5 years of Registrar experience specifically (albeit at an extremely small school where we use outdated information systems and processes) would make a significant enough difference along my career path to delay my MSW and, by extension, having a family. Would having this Registrar position for even 3-5 years really make the difference or will I essentially have to start from square one to move into deanship? Would a degree in social work be more relevant to this particular area of higher ed?

My questions seem to boil down to these:

1. Is a clinically-focused MSW a viable road to Assistant/Associate Deanship in an area like Student Life or Multicultural Affairs (in my case, I would have worked for 1-3 years in a college counseling center and written a thesis on young adult mental health and social identity before applying to any position)? If not, would a PhD in Social Work with a relevant dissertation be a reasonable route? While there are clearly exceptions, is the degree in Higher Education typically necessary? I would prefer not to spend time and money on it as it's completely useless outside of the academy.

2. Is it more valuable to have years of work, in my case Registrar, experience (albeit, in a very small institution using outdated technologies) where I sat on committees or the educational piece if my goal is deanship on the student affairs side?

Thanks for reading!

[helpful]

I have never heard of a MSW being sufficient for conducting psychotherapy. Is this common? I thought you needed to be a licensed psychologist to do psychotherapy.

[heartandheaded]

Hello, thank you for replying! Licensed Clinical Social Workers (the name varies slightly across state lines) are able to practice psychotherapy privately and bill insurance. Typically, one must work for 2 years after gaining the MSW to accrue the hours necessary to sit for the licensing exam. I assumed the same thing for a while until I encountered a LCSW who told me otherwise.

[michigander]

Like so many questions on these fora, my answer to yours is that it depends.  There are so many sub-specialties within student affairs/life that there can be many paths to the type of position you are seeking eventually, so you could get there with an MSW and licensure as long as you have the requisite experience.  You'll need to start out with a more entry level position such as a staff member in a counseling center.  Whether schools will accept an MSW for such a position, be looking for an ed psych counselor, or will prefer a PhD clinical psychologist will vary from school to school and from position to position.  I've certainly worked in at schools where MSWs were on the counseling staff.  Experience as a registrar will be interesting and will not disqualify you, but at most schools you'll also need experience in counseling, residence life, or another area that is more within the traditional core of student affairs/life.

[dale1]

Just one thing -- I do not know of any student affairs staff that home school.  Often your work will require you to be on campus from not later than 8 until not earlier than 5.  Unless your spouse is very interested in home schooling, and willing to do it, this is very difficult, in my opinion.

Most Assoc. or full deans have terminal degrees, at least at research universities that I am aware of.  Some have law degrees, which are not technically terminal.

[zharkov]

Just one thing -- I do not know of any student affairs staff that home school.  Often your work will require you to be on campus from not later than 8 until not earlier than 5.  Unless your spouse is very interested in home schooling, and willing to do it, this is very difficult, in my opinion.

Chime.  Homeschooling basically means a parent puts his/her career on hold -- or on the back burner -- during the time the kids are homeschooled.  Since I live in an area with good schools, it also seems sort of quirky for someone to homeschool their kids.  Why don't you just move to a place with good schools?  A parent homeschooling their kids where there are good schools might raise a red flag for me.  (Depending on the specifics of the issue at hand.)

[cj405]

If I were you, I'd do the MSW program.  I know  a few MSWs working in student affairs, most in counseling or wellness centers doing various kinds of outreach, health education, substance abuse education/prevention programs, and/or counseling.  I also know more than a few people with that degree who work in disability services (depending upon who you ask, this may or may not be considered student affairs).

Also, the schedule of a dean of student life is not really what I'd call flexible.  I don't think working towards that goal and starting your own private psychotherapy practice are compatible.  I could be wrong, but both careers seem like they'd demand a lot of your time and energy.

It seems to me that it is pretty common for counseling centers to hire part time counselors, but the administrators of those programs would be full time. 

Also, Dale is right that associate deans and deans of students are generally required to have terminal degrees.

[heartandheaded]

Hello everyone,

Thank you for your replies! I am glad to be aware that a terminal degree is typically required to move from Assistant to Associate Dean.

In reading your replies I've realized that I didn't explain that my hope is to really only practice psychotherapy (with perhaps some education-related consulting on the side) as a LCSW for the first 10-15 years while I'm having, raising, and (hopefully) homeschooling my kids. If possible and if my family's financial situation permits, I would love to work on a PhD during this time, either in Social Work, Education, or in a related field. Perhaps upon completion and once my kids no longer require my presence for their studies (if I'm homeschooling them), I could explore working in higher education in some capacity. In other words, I am definitely contemplating putting the academic component of my career on hold while I attend to my personal, family life; that is infinitely more important to me than anything else. I definitely did not envision homeschooling kids and being an administrator at the same time, but thank you for pointing that out as I'm realizing what I wrote was not entirely clear. As a side note: I would prefer to homeschool my children but another option that I may consider is enrolling them in a Sudbury School or other "democratic school" that places a very heavy emphasis on non-coercive, student-directed learning. This might provide the happy medium I need by offering my children something akin to the learning environment I desire for them and  satisfying my desire to work greater hours outside of the home and private practice.

As for why I am interested in homeschooling my kids, I suppose the short answer is that I take issue with many of what I perceive to be the foundational assumptions of K-12 education in the U.S.; it is not for religious reasons or any particularly fringe beliefs that I would go this route. In particular, the idea that children are not naturally interested in learning, cannot/will not teach themselves, and must therefore be coerced and policed is highly problematic to me. Further, the disrespectful dynamic between teacher and student (and between adult and child more broadly) is also incredibly troubling to me. This is not to say that I think that children should receive no guidance and instruction from adults. However, I think that the levels of incompetence that run rampant in schools is staggering and just because a teacher is older in years does not guarantee that she possesses greater wisdom. I want my children to enjoy and take ownership of their education and never feel as though they require someone to translate or pre-digest material for them. Despite the various issues that I might have with a particular school's curriculum, at the core of my frustrations is the fact that these institutions teach and reward obedience, fear, conformity, and mediocrity and stamp out any semblance of individuality, creativity, the presence of multiple intelligences, the crucial significance of arts, a balance between mind-body-spirit, etc. I know how cliche this comment may seem but I feel that these are significant problems in today's schools and I don't think that we will have the society that we desire until schools and families reexamine the very assumptions underlying education.

Interestingly, I think that the problems I've discussed are issues even in the "best" of schools, if not more so.
I recently graduated from one of the top LACs and was struck by the number of classmates who had attended elite high schools (e.g. Philips Andover, Exeter, etc) who came across as truly dull and had nothing unique or original to say. I don't think this is because what they studied was useless or that they were unintelligent. I simply feel that if you are socialized for 15 years in an environment where success demands increasing levels of obedience, conformity, competition, and so on, such students will be far less prepared to stick their necks out and share of their own innate wisdom with the confidence that it is valuable and relevant. Yes, they could sit around the seminar table and offer so-called critical reflections on a particular text but whether they were prepared to share of themselves fully and authentically in those moments is another matter entirely and, in my opinion, the one of greatest consequence. To me, education should help the student become aware of his or her true purpose, potential, and how to leverage their individual gifts in connection with what they've learned, not simply enable them to parrot Foucault at will. Undoubtedly, many of the most interesting and impressive people that I encountered during my undergraduate studies were those who were either homeschooled or completed some form of alternative educational program. I think about all of the self-directed learning they were able to accomplish over the 15-year period that I was busy twiddling my thumbs in school and having teachers insult my and my classmates' intelligence with uninspired assignments and low expectations. While my college peers who attended private high schools may have have faced a higher degree of challenge during their K-12 studies, the element of coercion, disrespect, shallowness, and self-denial that exists in even most elite schools is staggering to me. I do not feel good about effectively forcing my child to spend roughly 15 years of her life being coerced and distracted by so-called experts at the expense of her vast talents, individuality, and intelligence. This isn't to say that I believe every parent should take my approach. My perspective on this issue is very much informed by my own frustrations about my education. Sometimes, I feel an overwhelming sense of loss over the amount of time that I spent as a child doing schoolwork that was dull, irrelevant, and ultimately insulting when I could have been pursuing my passions and the multitude of subjects that interested me.

There is more that I could say on this topic as there are a number of supporting reasons why I intend to pursue either homeschooling or an alternative school that operates on a democratic/Sudbury model but I don't want to veer too far off topic. If the question of homeschooling is a subject that anyone would like to discuss further, please PM me and perhaps we can continue the conversation.

Thanks for reading!

[zharkov]

I share some of your sentiments, but it doesn't sound like you'd be happy working for an educational institution. 

Or for "the Man," as we used to say back in the day. 

This is why:  Part of the job of student affairs is enforcing compliance among the students.  Is that what you want to do?



 

[dale1]

Agree with zharkov, not surprisingly.

It sounds like the OP has tons of different ideas and competing interests and priorities.  When will sleep happen? 

At the risk of being a buzz-kill, my suggestion is this:  Think long and hard about your long-term goals and pursue them.  Having an avocation is fine, but one cannot be an expert or fully competent in all things.

[polly_mer]

Could we go back to "you're only 22 years old and you don't know anything yet" problem?

Maybe I don't get out enough and maybe I'm ageist, but as I read this thread, what I see is a recent graduate who hasn't a clue about what working one's way up the career ladder entails.  Being out of the workforce for the better part of fifteen years (starting a couple years from now) means you will be nearly 40 and essentially starting from scratch in terms of work history (2 years of work in normal grown-up land is considered being just barely above novice).

Now, some very, very accomplished women have done just that after finishing their education and doing some strategic things as the kids got older so that having volunteer/part-time positions were feasible, which means the work history wasn't completely a zero.  However, that requires a better, more flexible plan than "I'll take a degree and then sit on it for 15 years".

I also notice a distinct lack of mention of a spouse or partner.  Single-parenting is rough and it'll be rougher if you're not working enough to support a family on that one income.  Dual parenting can be easier, but people who marry go-getting people sometimes get upset when the dual incomes come to a halt.  Do you have a spouse/partner on board with this plan or is the true problem here that you need something to do until your "real" life as a mother starts?

[aandsdean]

Student affairs people get the midnight call when there's a problem in the dorms.  They work the weekends. They drive students to the hospital at 3 in the morning. They deal with frantic parents when something goes wrong with their kid. They deal with fights, drunkenness, suicide, sexual assault, and overdoses.

Student affairs is NOT a "control-your-time/prioritize your family" discipline.  Difficult as faculty life can be (to say nothing of the challenge of getting a job in the first place), it's tons easier from a personal life perspective than a mid-level student affairs job.

[tenured_feminist]

In general, I tell people, particularly women, that it's a bad idea to make career plans revolve totally around their children.

I think it's an even worse idea to make career plans revolve around children who haven't even been conceived yet.

What do YOU want for YOUR life and career, OP? Find that path toward a career that you will love, one that will sustain you intellectually and emotionally over time, and when or if children come, you'll figure it out. Homeschooling children is not a career. I'm not trying to be harsh, but I don't want your 45-year-old self to wish for a time machine to come back and read your 22-year-old self the riot act.

[polly_mer]

While I don't disagree with Tenured_Feminist, I will point out that if what you, OP, want as your main project for the next N years is guiding/teaching/loving children, a MSW in social work or working as a registrar seems less relevant than taking a job working with children, becoming heavily involved as a volunteer working with children/families, or enrolling in a degree/certificate program that has a solid component of working with children.

If you want to be that ardent homeschooler based on philosophical beliefs, why aren't you investigating working with people who do that or people who work in the kinds of schools that you support?

If you want to be in student affairs, why aren't you applying for jobs in student affairs?  I've seen advertisements for recent graduates (BA and no required experience) for entry-level positions.

I see a lot of wishes that don't go together, but nothing that smacks of Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C.  We can help with details of a plan once you choose a coherent set of goals.  We can point out better ways to do things (or plans that simply won't work), but we can't choose the goals for you.

[tenured_feminist]

Polly, I don't see anywhere in the OP's posts any interest in working with any children other than her own until said other children are college aged.

And an aspiration to a deanship of anything doesn't mix well with an aspiration for "geographic control over my job placement," nor with a long period of part-time work. It is an unfortunate reality that if the OP chooses to step off the career track for seventeen or so years, she might well be able to find plenty of openings as assistant dean of X, Y, or Z, but a deanship? Unlikely, unless it is at a very small institution where the OP has a solid in and where national job searches are not the norm.

The OP has written a lot, but like Polly, I don't think I have any real clarity about what she wants.