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Author Topic: Is student lying  (Read 12191 times)
reener06
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« on: October 17, 2011, 08:37:14 AM »

I gave a midterm in my online classes last week. Student emails that she tried to access Bb on 10/14 and could not get in and says she immediately sent me an email. The second email, she states, was because I did not respond to the first. I reply that I never got an email, and per the syllabus, she was required to contact Bb immediately when she encountered a problem. Her reply:

Student: I could not access any of my Bb courses. A friend took my computer and fixed it. When he finished, the exam period closed. I sent you an email from my iphone, and that is probably why you didn't get it, b/c it doesn't always work right.

Me: OK, resend that email to me so I can see it (wanting date and time verified).

Meanwhile, I called Bb to see if they could tell me did she attempt to sign in to Bb on 10/14. Talked to a very rude technician who told me that was impossible for him to figure out. I stated that other Bb reps have been able to tell me this; he replied that he had information on getting that type of data, but was too busy to look at it, would send me directions (which turned out to be wrong) on how to do that. I asked to speak to his supervisor, and he said he was the supervisor, and this could go no higher. I will try to call back today and talk to someone else.

Student: Well, my gmail inbox and outbox were recently cleared, so I have no email copy to send you (I get more suspicious). But, I am a very responsible student and care about my grades.

Me: It is your responsibility if something goes wrong with Bb, as it states on the syllabus to contact them to create a record of problems. I need some evidence of a problem. I suggest you talk to your friend and find out what the problem is, and then contact Bb to see if they have a record of you logging on.

Student: I asked and he said that my firewall was preventing me from being able to view Blackboard. apparently when I updated my software and downloaded spyware it didnt like blackboard. when I logged in it said it was unable to view but didnt say why. but he assured me that the problem was fixed and i have since accessed Bb successfully. I will contact Bb first thing in the morning and see if there is any way i can get proof that this happened. I understand why you would be skeptical but i assure you that I am not making this up. Im unsure of how I can prove it but Im going to try. If there is anything else I can do to prove it please let me know.

And Bb just emailed me back that they have no record of student trying to access the course on Bb on Oct. 14.

I am leaning toward allowing her to take it; however, I caught a few others in lies and want to to the fair thing. Half the time it seems like she is telling the truth and other half it does not. 
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polly_mer
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2011, 11:28:40 AM »

Let's get down to brass tacks.

1) The procedure for reporting Blackboard problems was not followed in a documented way.
2) At best, according to the student's own report, the student logged on Friday to take the test.
3) You need to focus on you and the baby right this second.

So think about your options: resetting the test, adding a make-up test for everyone later, or saying, "Tough noggies, you didn't follow the procedure"?  Whichever one is easiest for you right this second is the one you do.
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motormouth
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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2011, 11:41:56 AM »

Agree.

1)Student did not submit a trouble ticket as needed.
2)They emptied their email at the same exact time as the blackboard issue. (yea right!)
3)They knew the i-phone messes up email yet they sent it from that device.
4)They waited till the last minute to take the exam.
5)The student did not try another computer for example, one in the campus computer center.
6)As far as I know firewalls do not work this way, although a virus might do something to a browser (IE or Firefox) to prevent access to certain sites.

I think they should take the blame for their own (in)actions. There were multiple ways to mitigate this, yet they gave up with one attempt.
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concordancia
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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2011, 11:45:31 AM »

You do not need to accuse the student of lying, only of not following proper procedures. The former may be (and probably is) true, but it is irrelevant in this case - they are paying the consequences for not following procedure, not for lying.
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proftowanda
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« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2011, 01:41:13 PM »

Agree.

1)Student did not submit a trouble ticket as needed.
2)They emptied their email at the same exact time as the blackboard issue. (yea right!)
3)They knew the i-phone messes up email yet they sent it from that device.
4)They waited till the last minute to take the exam.
5)The student did not try another computer for example, one in the campus computer center.
6)As far as I know firewalls do not work this way, although a virus might do something to a browser (IE or Firefox) to prevent access to certain sites.

I think they should take the blame for their own (in)actions. There were multiple ways to mitigate this, yet they gave up with one attempt.


Many good points above, and I always appreciate such analytical minds that can take amorphous complaints (by colleagues, admins, etc., as well as by students) and create this sort of clear list to consider.

OP, for me, #5 is a crucial item.  I tell students from the start to have an alternative computer in mind, in the event of a problem with a specific computer.  The world is full of computers these days, not just on campus but in public libraries, coffeeshops, etc.  The friend who came to fix the computer didn't have a computer?  At least to send the email to you, instead of via the allegedly problematic -- and a problem known to the student -- smartphone? 

That is, the student can go on and on about the problem, and try to drag you into putting in more time than the student did or is doing to provide evidence of the problem, but perhaps the way out is to ask whether the student really thought that the solution was to see her computer as the only computer in the world and hand that computer over to someone else for hours on end, past the test deadline? 

Focus on the obvious solution that the student ought to have followed -- find another computer fast, have another computer in mind before a test, etc. -- and just say no.  At least, for now.   Your solution is that this is not your problem, because your procedures were clearly stated and were not followed.

Let the student put in any more time on this to come up with evidence that might mitigate the "no."  There is time for changing a grade. 
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helpful
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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2011, 02:01:14 PM »

You are spending way too much time on this. Do you believe her or not? If you don't, fail her. If you do, allow her to write a different exam.

To me, if she is spending as much time as you are on this (and it looks like she is) to create a 'story' behind her missing the exam, I would give her the benefit of the doubt, but watch her with an eagle eye through the rest of the course. That is, give in, but put her on warning.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 02:02:30 PM by helpful » Logged
hulkhogan
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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2011, 05:04:59 PM »

Students who call themselves "responsible" but make no attempt to actually fix the problem = major red flag.
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pigou
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« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2011, 07:11:27 PM »

Deleted all her e-mails, has a "firewall" issue, and e-mails from her iPhone are not delivered? That's 3 technical issues right there, none of which is believable. Who in their right mind would delete sent e-mails, especially right after a technical issue? Firewalls don't generally block individual websites, and certainly not blackboard. Finally, iPhones tend to deliver their emails. While I might buy one of these things happening, all three? Nope.

I'd assume the student tried to access it late for one reason or another. I wouldn't rule out, however, that there was a legitimate reason and the student is now just freaking out, trying to make up an excuse that will get her to retake the test.

What's your policy if someone has a legitimate reason for missing the test? If you have an alternate exam prepared for those cases, you might consider letting her take it. If she was going to do poorly on the day of the exam, I doubt an extra day or two would do her any good.
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reener06
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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2011, 07:32:42 PM »

Thanks everyone. I really needed more sets on eyes and minds on this. I took the fora's advice, for this and 2 other students whose excuses seem weak to me (one student claims that 'strong winds' disabled his internet; ironically he lives in the same county my sister does, and she emailed me all week). I have let them know it is their responsibility to get me documentation of the problem, and I specified for each case what that would be; that I am now on medical leave and would not respond to emails for a week; however, once I receive and verify the documentation I will be happy to reschedule their exams.

As these are online students, and as I am having a baby in 36 hours, I am not going to create new exams for them. My guess is they missed the exam window and came up with some pretty wild excuses, and assumed I could not check the accuracy of them. My online syllabi apparently need even more clarification, I've learned; however, they did not follow the very clear and bolded instructions to contact Bb and me ASAP if there is a problem with their exams.

I'm struck this semester by how many missed the exam, and then thought this was no big deal, and are now angry that I am wanting verification for their excuses. The degree of vitriol that comes across is a bit much, all things considered.

I'm not worrying about it now; taking polly_mer's advice and worrying about me and baby.
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theritas
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« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2011, 08:09:47 AM »

I have had odd pockets of extremely rude or accusatory e-mail responses from students (and even parents) in the past.  They come and go in odd lots, with little rhyme or reason.  It's best to stick to your policies in general, and definitely when your personal life needs more attention. 

Best wishes to you and yours over the coming days!
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amlithist
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« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2011, 03:47:10 PM »

I don't know who you called with Bboard--an outside/off-site rep?  IMHO, they're a waste of time.  Do you have an internal Bboard Coordinator/somebody in your tech dept. who's responsible for Bboard?  If so, s/he should be able to confirm/deny her log-in.
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infopri
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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2011, 02:11:16 AM »

Does Blackboard not have a tracking feature?  We just switched to Blackboard from a pre-Blackboard WebCt system, but I haven't taught with Blackboard yet.  (I'm currently preparing my Blackboard course for the spring.)  In the WebCT system, I was able to track every student's every movement: Date/time and duration of logons, date/time of uploads, emails sent or read, and opening of every single page of the course (lectures, class discussion threads, readings, exams taken, everything).  I caught many a student in a lie that way.

Student:  <Stupid question answered clearly in lecture, such as "How many pages are required in the analytical paper?">
Me:  If you had read the lecture, you would know the answer to that question.
Student:  Oh, I did read the lecture--every word--but I must have missed it.
Me:  Um, actually, no, you didn't read the lecture.  You never even opened the file.  In fact, you haven't opened any of the last three lectures, which might explain why you feel so at sea right now.


I loved this tracking feature, as it was absolutely reliable.  (My wonderful system administrators do thorough testing every semester.)  Does Blackboard not have this feature?
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drspouse
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« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2011, 06:32:02 AM »

Answer: there are plenty of other computers on campus. Hu should have used one of them.
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polly_mer
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hiding out from my grading. Shhh!


« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2011, 07:17:27 AM »

I loved this tracking feature, as it was absolutely reliable.  (My wonderful system administrators do thorough testing every semester.)  Does Blackboard not have this feature?

Technically, Blackboard has a similar feature, but the use of such a feature in Bb9.1 is such a huge pain that I seldom use it.  What you have to do is set the "track statistics" feature for every item that you want to be able to later examine.  Then, you have to choose to run the statistics for that item, which may take a few minutes, and the results come back in a format that shows someone's love of random garbage "statistics".  However, part of the results are a list of student names with the dates on which they accessed that particular item.

I don't know that one can have a handy window with student names, columns of each item, and a date of last access the way a sane person would track activity.
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infopri
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« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2011, 12:04:22 PM »

I loved this tracking feature, as it was absolutely reliable.  (My wonderful system administrators do thorough testing every semester.)  Does Blackboard not have this feature?

Technically, Blackboard has a similar feature, but the use of such a feature in Bb9.1 is such a huge pain that I seldom use it.  What you have to do is set the "track statistics" feature for every item that you want to be able to later examine.  Then, you have to choose to run the statistics for that item, which may take a few minutes, and the results come back in a format that shows someone's love of random garbage "statistics".  However, part of the results are a list of student names with the dates on which they accessed that particular item.

I don't know that one can have a handy window with student names, columns of each item, and a date of last access the way a sane person would track activity.

Thanks, polly.  I've already set my upcoming course to "track statistics" for every element (not too painful if you set it up that way as you go), but you're right: Tracking who has accessed each feature is not nearly as useful as tracking everything (in one place) that a particular student has done.  WebCT did this very, very nicely!  I'd get a nice summary report, with each row representing a student and each column representing a course element.  Many of the cells contained links to more detailed statistics for the intersecting student and course element.  I'm really going to miss that, if Blackboard doesn't have it.  Rats.
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