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[hiddendragon]

Do we have a right to intervene directly in the diet of someone who we care a lot about?  I've been debating this a lot and I don't know what to do anymore.  I think I have a right to intervene.  My friend has horrible health issues.  He's overweight and has had heart problems multiple times.  He knows he's supposed to eat right and exercise.  He does exercise, but his weight remains consistently the same.  I'm thinking that it's because he chugs down soda like he's made up of 90% soda, and rarely drinks water.  When he's not drinking soda, he's chugging down juice or some other sugar drink.  I've read in studies that sugar drink and soda can erode the linings of the arteries, leading to heart disease.  I told him this.  He does not believe me, or chooses not to believe me.  He also has problems with portion control.  He always supersize when given the chance.  No amount of exercise is going to make him thinner if he eats this kind of portion.

So, today, we had lunch and he supersizes yet again.  And, I reminded him of his diet restrictions due to health issues.  He got mad and tossed the whole tray in the trash and left me at the table.  Was I out of line?  What can you do for people who I care about who know what they need to do to improve their health, but refuses to do it?  I feel like this friend is just going to commit suicide this way; that he's adament in committing suicide this way.

[citrine]

He knows that you're concerned; you've told him so. I'm sure other people (including his medical professionals) have probably told him so as well. He's a competent adult, making his own choices, and thus he will have to take the consequences of those choices. He's not your child, for whom you would have responsibility for in making choices about diet; he's your peer. Do you want people to treat you like a child?

I don't think it's going to be helpful to your continuing friendship if you continue to remind him of these things, even if it is out of care and concern. He already knows; he's just choosing not to act on that knowledge. It's obvious that you care about him, but I don't think that continually telling him these things or trying to intervene in his life is going to make any difference. If anything, it may make him more stubborn and more insistent on doing the opposite of what you say, or it may lead to the loss of your friendship.

[zharkov]

You crossed the line and owe the guy an apology.

[palla]

You crossed the line and owe the guy an apology.

I agree.

My mother is diabetic. She eats whatever she wants and doesn't exercise.  Her feet are messed up now and she has trouble walking. She blames it on gout, but we all know it isn't gout.  She doesn't want to take care of herself.  As much as I love her and want her to eat healthy, I can't control her.  I can only love her and accept her the way she is.  And I ask her to do the same for me because I know I also don't always make the right decisions.

[molli_sols]

Hi Hiddendragon.  Your heart is in the right place but it came off as an attack on your friend.  I think you need to turn it around and look at it from your friend's perspective.  Would you like it if every time you went shopping together your friend  told you not to buy fabulous heels because your corns would hurt later?  What if you really wanted those shoes, and liked the way they made you feel emotionally when wearing them, even if they pinched your toes?  Food choices are intensely personal and emotional, and you just criticized your friend in an area they may already feel very negative about.  

But, like I said, your heart is in the right place.  I think you should apologize to your friend.  Use it as an opportunity to express your concern for them and offer your support in a more sensitive way.  Acknowledge that you know it is difficult and you want to be there for them.  If you feel it is as simple as "just say no" then you might not really understand the issues enough to guide them, but you can still be there just to say that you care about them and hope they stick around for a long time.    

[onthefringe]

The chance that your friend does not already know what you told him is so small as to be insignificant. There are probably things going on there that you can't influence at all. Apologize once, using it as a chance to point out how much you care for him, and that your caring led you to make inappropriate comments about his eating habits. Then drop it and never refer to it again.

[hiddendragon]

So, while drug interventions are ok, it's not ok to do food intervention?  My friend is seriously addicted to sugar and food in general.  I don't know what to do.  Is there anything I can do?  My friend is not amenable to therapy sessions either.  He does know he has a problem, though.  And, this is a friend I really care about.  I accompany him to his doctor's appts., I nursed him back to health the last time he had a heart attack--stopped by to cook and do some household chores for him. I feel so depressed and helpless.  Is there anything I CAN do for myself to not feel this way?  Besides a good therapist, that is.  This issue really depresses me because I feel like I'm watching a friend commit suicide and I'm not doing anything about it.  Sometimes, I feel that the only option left is to distance myself from him, or to just let the friendship go.  The strain of watching him do this to himself it too much for me.  I encourage him to exercise with me, to jog with me, bike with me, etc.  But he really needs to drastically change the way he eats and drinks in order to get his weight under control.

[fiona]

So, while drug interventions are ok, it's not ok to do food intervention?  My friend is seriously addicted to sugar and food in general.  I don't know what to do.  Is there anything I can do?  My friend is not amenable to therapy sessions either.  He does know he has a problem, though.  And, this is a friend I really care about.  I accompany him to his doctor's appts., I nursed him back to health the last time he had a heart attack--stopped by to cook and do some household chores for him. I feel so depressed and helpless.  Is there anything I CAN do for myself to not feel this way?  Besides a good therapist, that is.  This issue really depresses me because I feel like I'm watching a friend commit suicide and I'm not doing anything about it.  Sometimes, I feel that the only option left is to distance myself from him, or to just let the friendship go.  The strain of watching him do this to himself it too much for me.  I encourage him to exercise with me, to jog with me, bike with me, etc.  But he really needs to drastically change the way he eats and drinks in order to get his weight under control.

This is really about you, not about your friend. You're trying to control an adult, and that's rude and out of line. People deserve the right to make their own choices, and you don't have the right or power to control their choices. If you don't like your friend's behavior, then you can't be friends, and you really should withdraw from his life. No one's life is helped by being around a nagger.

The Fiona

[concordancia]

So, while drug interventions are ok, it's not ok to do food intervention?  

A drug intervention usually involves something along the lines of "get help or we are walking away." It is a communal act of confrontation in which one's support system comes forward to remind them that they are unanimous in seeing the problem and will not watch the individual continue to destroy himself. One person bringing it up in the middle of poor choices is nagging, not an intervention. If you do choose to distance yourself, make sure you spell out that you cannot watch this, but also know that there is no such thing as an individual intervention.

As for yourself, there is a reason that we have programs like al-anon. Learning to let go is just as hard for both partners in a co-dependent relationship.

[citrine]

So, while drug interventions are ok, it's not ok to do food intervention? 

Drug interventions don't often work, either. I have a sibling with a serious substance abuse problem. My family has learned that we cannot make him stop drinking alcohol/doing drugs, no matter what we say. We can refuse to help him get access to them (don't keep alcohol/drugs in the house when he visits, don't give him money or things that can be easily sold for money so he can buy drugs/alcohol). We can refuse to have him in our homes as a visitor or as a guest. We can point out the consequences of his actions when bad things happen as a result. We can support him and encourage him when he tries to get sober. We do all those things.

But if it were as easy as saying, "Hey, stop doing that!" then he wouldn't have three DUIs, a string of arrests for other petty crimes, several years of jail time, and multiple health problems and he'd be clean and sober. He KNOWS his choices are bad; at this point he's taken the mandatory drug/alcohol education classes so many times that he can teach them. But he keeps making them, and as much as it breaks our hearts, we cannot stop him, even though we know it could and very well probably will kill him. (Our greatest fear, actually, is that he will hurt or kill someone else due to his actions, which is why it's a relief that he cannot drive any more.)

[palla]

HD, it is hard, and it sucks.  I know the agony of watching someone engage in self-destructive behavior.  It isn't easy.  Even if it were drugs, is the friend doesn't want to change, he isn't going to change.

One thing that helped me with my mom (and I still struggle with it) is to limit her diet when she is at my house.  We don't have much sugar and stuff in our house, but when she is in town, I never make dessert.  I don't have candy sitting out.  They will be up the week of Halloween. I will put the kids' candy up.  It doesn't help or change her at all, but I feel better knowing she isn't getting the sugar at my house.  And, yes, I know that it isn't changing her diet at all.

Maybe you can limit where you eat with your friend.  Don't go places that offer to supersize.  It is hard to go somewhere without cokes, but you can lean towards healthier eating establishments.  Really, there isn't much healthy at a place that offers to supersize the meal.

Other than that, you can't do much.  Your friend is aware of the choices he is making.  He considers you a friend because you still accept him and appreciate his good qualities.  When you stop accepting him for what he has to offer and judge him for his eating habits, you are going to lose his friendship.  You don’t want that.

[voxprincipalis]

Do we have a right to intervene directly in the diet of someone who we care a lot about?  I've been debating this a lot and I don't know what to do anymore.  I think I have a right to intervene.  My friend has horrible health issues.  He's overweight and has had heart problems multiple times.  He knows he's supposed to eat right and exercise.  He does exercise, but his weight remains consistently the same.  I'm thinking that it's because he chugs down soda like he's made up of 90% soda, and rarely drinks water.  When he's not drinking soda, he's chugging down juice or some other sugar drink.  I've read in studies that sugar drink and soda can erode the linings of the arteries, leading to heart disease.  I told him this.  He does not believe me, or chooses not to believe me.  He also has problems with portion control.  He always supersize when given the chance.  No amount of exercise is going to make him thinner if he eats this kind of portion.

So, today, we had lunch and he supersizes yet again.  And, I reminded him of his diet restrictions due to health issues.  He got mad and tossed the whole tray in the trash and left me at the table.  Was I out of line?  What can you do for people who I care about who know what they need to do to improve their health, but refuses to do it?  I feel like this friend is just going to commit suicide this way; that he's adament in committing suicide this way.

Were you out of line? Yes.

Hiddendragon, it seems like every single topic you start is about people (students, whoever) who aren't doing things the way you think they should do them, and how irritating or problematic that is for you. Personal life or professional life -- same problems. They're not doing what you think they should, and you're trying to intervene and control them.

What is the common factor in all of these posts?

Your friend is an adult. He is responsible for his own behavior. I would be so angry with a friend who did what you did, it would be the end of the friendship.

VP

[menotti]

Nothing short of surgery is going to make him thinner, so forget that. 

You might benefit from reading some of the stuff on www.fatnutritionist.com to get an idea of what this feels like from the other side.


Here is a relevant recent post:
http://www.fatnutritionist.com/index.php/how-to-eat-in-a-nutshell-lesson-one/

[infopri]

Do we have a right to intervene directly in the diet of someone who we care a lot about?

No, you don't.  If he's an adult, then he's in control of the decisions about his diet, not you.  You don't have to like it, but you have to respect the boundaries.  He knows what he's doing, and your attempts to control what he eats will drive a wedge between you and very probably destroy the friendship.  If you value the friendship, stop what you're doing.  Now.  And apologize.  And then say nothing more about it--and no evil stares at his plate, either.

Was I out of line?

Completely.  I don't blame him from walking away from you at the table.  You can tell him that you care and that you're worried about him--which you've already done--but that's it.  Beyond that, you become a nag or even a control freak.  No one wants to be around either one.

Is there anything I can do?

No.  Nothing.  Your experience has already demonstrated that.  Everyone here is telling you that.  You cannot change your friend's behavior, only your own.  You can't watch?  Then don't.  That doesn't mean you have to break off the friendship, but if you really can't watch your friend do this to himself, then don't have meals together.  Do other things together instead. 

I accompany him to his doctor's appts., I nursed him back to health the last time he had a heart attack--stopped by to cook and do some household chores for him. I feel so depressed and helpless.  Is there anything I CAN do for myself to not feel this way?  Besides a good therapist, that is.  This issue really depresses me because I feel like I'm watching a friend commit suicide and I'm not doing anything about it.  Sometimes, I feel that the only option left is to distance myself from him, or to just let the friendship go.  The strain of watching him do this to himself it too much for me.

This is what I'm talking about.  You don't have to cut off the friendship, but you don't have to do all these things, if they're too much for you.  You can even tell your friend, "If you continue to eat this way and make yourself sick, I won't be there to nurse you back to health, to cook for you and do your household chores," etc.  This is an example of how you can change your behavior.  Note that I'm not suggesting that you use this as a threat in an effort to make him change--because it won't work.  You are simply letting him know that this will be your course of action, should his dietary choices make him sick again. 

When my mother had sextuple-bypass surgery (yes, six at once) many years ago, her surgeon told her afterward that if she continued to smoke cigarettes, she would need surgery again within x years--and that she would have to find a new surgeon to do it.  There was no drama, no histrionics--he was just stating a fact.  He would not perform a second surgery on a woman determined to make herself sick.  Similarly, you can refuse to play nursemaid and housekeeper to your friend, without making it a threat.  You're just stating a fact.

[sugaree]

You can only change your own behavior - not anyone else's.

After what you've done to him, Hiddendragon, I wouldn't worry about how you "can't take it anymore" as I expect he will not be calling you for any reason now. And if a "friend" did to me what you did to him, well, the I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to put up with you anymore.