jasondavid
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« on: October 07, 2011, 03:57:10 PM » |
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Can anyone please tell me what would be the differences in terms of life and academic career between postions in a mid-ranked Russell Group universities in the UK and a top 20-50th universities in the US? E.g. salaries/expenses, quality of students, long term research development, etc.
While I'm not exactly at the position to choose between two offers yet, I'd like to get some ideas how this would make a difference. Also I'm at an early stage of my postdoctoral training. I have reasons to believe that I can land a job in a mid-range universities in both UK and US. With a couple of more years in postdoc, I might be able to end up at a better university, e.g. oxbridge level universities in the UK or top 20 universities in the US. But this is so not predictable in terms of job markets and other things. So I'm not sure if it's worth waiting. In the worst case, I might just end up at a place where I can go now even with more years in postdoc (and more work done).
Can some senior members please give me some advice what would be a right strategy for me in terms of job search and career plans? Is it easy to switch to a better university after you start your career?
I would greatly appreciate any of your comments.
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totoro
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2011, 05:05:10 PM » |
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Which country are you in now? What field are you in?
In my field you'd make a LOT less money in the UK especially once cost of living and taxes are taken into consideration. With the possible exception of Oxbridge and some London schools (in my field LSE and UCL) the top PhD students are going to go to the US if they can. I think it is hard to move up within the US system and even harder from the UK to the US. Getting the best possible initial TT position is key. But this may differ across fields based on what I've read on the fora.
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jasondavid
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2011, 05:12:29 PM » |
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Thank you totoro. I'm currently in the US. My field is engineering.
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jasondavid
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2011, 06:36:30 PM » |
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Can anyone please tell me what would be the differences in terms of life and academic career between postions in a mid-ranked Russell Group universities in the UK and a top 20-50th universities in the US? E.g. salaries/expenses, quality of students, long term research development, etc.
While I'm not exactly at the position to choose between two offers yet, I'd like to get some ideas how this would make a difference. Also I'm at an early stage of my postdoctoral training. I have reasons to believe that I can land a job in a mid-range universities in both UK and US. With a couple of more years in postdoc, I might be able to end up at a better university, e.g. oxbridge level universities in the UK or top 20 universities in the US. But this is so not predictable in terms of job markets and other things. So I'm not sure if it's worth waiting. In the worst case, I might just end up at a place where I can go now even with more years in postdoc (and more work done).
Can some senior members please give me some advice what would be a right strategy for me in terms of job search and career plans? Is it easy to switch to a better university after you start your career? My field is in Engineering and I'm currently in the US.
I would greatly appreciate any of your comments.
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hegemony
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2011, 06:40:04 PM » |
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It is not easy to switch to a better university. It is very, very difficult. You should do what you can to be a serious contender for as high up the ranks as you can get.
I'm not sure it will be easy to describe the difference between UK and US universities because there are so many differences and because there are many differences between universities in the same country. But if you're eligible to work in both countries, you shouldn't restrict yourself to one or the other in your search. The market is bad enough that you'll want all the chance you can get. If your training is at a US university, you'll have a better chance in the US, I would imagine, as you'll be familiar with the system.
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Tragedy tomorrow, comedy tonight.
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totoro
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« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2011, 06:54:15 PM » |
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What happened to my reply?! Anyway, as I was saying, in my field you'd make a pile more money in the US especially after taxes and living costs are taken into account. I also said that the best PhD students are likely to go to the US. And I asked whether you are currently in the UK or US and what field. Moving up is hard. It's important to get the best possible TT job to start with. At least in my field again (economics).
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totoro
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« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2011, 07:00:41 PM » |
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You can apply for jobs in the UK to broaden your search but I think you'll make a lot less money and will be more or less stuck in the UK once going there. Certainly if your ambition is to move up.
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jasondavid
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« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2011, 07:17:54 PM » |
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Many thanks totoro! The problem is that UK hirings and US hirings are so asynchronous. It takes significantly less amount of time for a UK search to be complete. At the time I get a UK offer, I might have nothing on the US side. I doubt they would give me much time to sit on the offer. I was told that rejecting the only offer you have seems to be a bad move in many senses. I guess my biggest concern is, without even trying the US market, is it rational to settle at a mid-range UK university?
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« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 07:19:06 PM by jasondavid »
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scampster
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« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2011, 07:28:52 PM » |
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Many thanks totoro! The problem is that UK hirings and US hirings are so asynchronous. It takes significantly less amount of time for a UK search to be complete. At the time I get a UK offer, I might have nothing on the US side. I doubt they would give me much time to sit on the offer. I was told that rejecting the only offer you have seems to be a bad move in many senses. I guess my biggest concern is, without even trying the US market, is it rational to settle at a mid-range UK university?
JD, are you a UK citizen? Or an EU citizen? I am also in your field and applying to schools at the same level you describe in your OP and I have had 7 interviews in the US, Canada, and Australia, but I haven't been able to break into similar tier schools in the UK. I've been told that it is getting harder to get a Tier 2 Visa (I think that is what it is called), but it could easily also be fit issues with me personally. I'm just letting you know that my experience has been that getting interviews at similar tier schools in the UK has been a bust for me, so you might not want to assume it should be the same as getting interviews at similar tier schools elsewhere. |
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When you are a scientist your opinions and prejudices become facts. Science is like magic that way!
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jasondavid
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« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2011, 07:42:23 PM » |
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scampster, I'm a US citizen, looking for academic jobs worldwide... I should seriously submit a few applications for positions in the US and Canada within this month. Even so, I doubt schools in North America would make decisions or even start to interview within this year.
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« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 07:43:05 PM by jasondavid »
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scampster
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« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2011, 07:48:49 PM » |
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scampster, I'm a US citizen, looking for academic jobs worldwide... I should seriously submit a few applications for positions in the US and Canada within this month. Even so, I doubt schools in North America would make decisions or even start to interview within this year.
No they won't. I'm saying that you might not have a choice to make, unless you are a stellar candidate. Have you applied for UK jobs? They are a PITA because of the selection criteria. So make sure you really want the job before you apply because they can suck up way more time than your typical US application. Plus, like you said, you would find out about those sooner than US jobs, so if you don't really want the job, I wouldn't apply just to apply. |
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When you are a scientist your opinions and prejudices become facts. Science is like magic that way!
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scampster
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« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2011, 08:01:27 PM » |
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What happened to my reply?! Anyway, as I was saying, in my field you'd make a pile more money in the US especially after taxes and living costs are taken into account. I also said that the best PhD students are likely to go to the US. And I asked whether you are currently in the UK or US and what field. Moving up is hard. It's important to get the best possible TT job to start with. At least in my field again (economics).
What happened to your reply is that the OP posted this in two places and you replied on the other thread. Tsk tsk OP! That's the reason we don't double post! |
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When you are a scientist your opinions and prejudices become facts. Science is like magic that way!
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jasondavid
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Posts: 25
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« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2011, 08:56:41 PM » |
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Yes, I applied for a couple. They seem to move really fast from deadline to long-listing, where I was informed. The application was not too much a pain for me, since I applied for an Australian position before. I used almost the same thing to address the Selection Criteria. No my concern is more like what if they give me an offer, what should I do... I didn't even know they would move so fast, like make hiring decision within 2 months.
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jasondavid
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Posts: 25
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« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2011, 08:58:29 PM » |
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pournelle
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« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2011, 09:44:21 PM » |
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There is no comparison between us #'s 20-50 and mid-range uk schools. U of Michigan, NYU, UCLA: only a few uk schools are above this level, oxbridge plus one or two london places (depending on field). In addition, the money will be far better at this level in the us (barring some special chair at cambridge)
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