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[treehugger1]

Hi all,

I have a friend (an academic) who is nice to talk with for the first hour or two or of any get-together. The problem is, I have a horrible problem getting this person to leave. She does not take a hint and doesn't seem to realize that I really don't enjoy being with her for hours and hours. I've tried every means available to get her to take leave within a reasonable time -- to no avail.

I have tried: looking at my watch; staring at my watch; mentioning how late it is; how tired I am; yawning repeatedly; staring into space; telling her how I really have to go now; telling her ahead of time that I have to leave at a certain time and insisting on it; having someone else call me at a certain time to rescue me; planning to meet at a place that will close at a certain time (did not work at all, we just wound up talking outside in the cold for a long time afterwards). Each time I get more and more annoyed and finally just wind up walking away while she is still talking. While walking away, I make friendly waving gestures until she is out of earshot. The last time I was so fed up I didn't even do this, I just turned and walked away. She literally ran after me as I was getting into my car saying something like "Is something wrong with your car? What's wrong?" After each get-together, I swear to myself: "that's it for her." But she's great at entertaining email exchanges that eventually morph into face-to-face contact which I then regret.

I'm going to see her again soon and am seriously thinking of openly addressing the issue this time although I'm worried that this will hurt her feelings ... and not solve anything.

I'm thinking of telling her that I'm an introvert and I just can't take hours and hours of pure talk. This is totally true. Even with my family, I actually get up and "go into hiding" for a while when conversation gets to be a burden. I'm also thinking that this kind of explanation wouldn't lay the blame her and so might be more likely to succeed than the bludgeoning her with "the truth."

Should I go for it? Does anyone have any other ideas?

[tuxedo_cat]

treehugger, could you come over and hang out with me?  And could we both sit around and say *absolutely nothing* for about 3 hours?

Maybe we could just exchange cell phone numbers and whenever one of us needs to have one of these visits, we could send the other one a 35 min. "count-down" text that says, "Please call me in 35 minutes and pretend to be my dysfunctional mother/sibling/ex having a complete -- and audible -- meltdown on the phone."

I'm sorry, I don't have any decent ideas.  I'm just sympathizing.  I have a colleague who has been very supportive and kind, but who can talk incessantly about herself non-stop for hours.*  And she's about to have a kid.  And I am so not a "kid" person.  I'm thinking of developing some peculiar disease that involves bouts of complete and involuntary deafness.  Kind of like narcolepsy, but just for your ears.

*Yeah, I'm just noticing that I got three redundancies into one sentence.  Perhaps that is a measure of my frustration.

[ptarmigan]

What doesn't work about saying, "I need to go now," and then going?

[merinoblue]

I had the same question as Ptarmigan.  Just leave.  You have to go.

It also sounds like the problem has been getting her to leave your place. ("The problem is, I have a horrible problem getting this person to leave.")  If so, don't ever invite her to your place. Meet in a public setting, like a cafe. Sit at the seat closer to the exit, so that you don't have to walk around her to leave.  Tell her when you sit down you have to leave in an hour (or whenever). 10 minutes before the hour, start saying your goodbyes.

No one gets to hold you hostage to their inability to recognize your boundaries. And it's not your job to teach someone how to recognize basic social cues.

(I say this from experience with a family member who has an undiagnosed mental illness and behaves in similar ways to your friend. She does not know how to read social cues, and no amount of "having a talk with her" results in us ending our conversation on time. So I had to modify my behaviour and expectations. Sometimes, it's meant hanging up on her when we're on the phone, after giving her the 10-minute goodbye warning, because she won't accept goodbye is the end of the call. My final "goodbye" usually signals it's time for her launch into another 30 minutes of intense talking. "Okay, but I just want to say one more thing..." Uh-huh.  Unfortunately, my bladder won't hold out forever, and she doesn't get to monopolize me or my day.)

[treehugger1]

(I say this from experience with a family member who has an undiagnosed mental illness and behaves in similar ways to your friend. She does not know how to read social cues, and no amount of "having a talk with her" results in us ending our conversation on time. So I had to modify my behaviour and expectations. Sometimes, it's meant hanging up on her when we're on the phone, after giving her the 10-minute goodbye warning, because she won't accept goodbye is the end of the call. My final "goodbye" usually signals it's time for her launch into another 30 minutes of intense talking. "Okay, but I just want to say one more thing..." Uh-huh.  Unfortunately, my bladder won't hold out forever, and she doesn't get to monopolize me or my day.)

I'm actually wondering if this behavior isn't the sign of some kind of personality disorder, even if she seems totally normal and then some in most other ways.

treehugger, could you come over and hang out with me?  And could we both sit around and say *absolutely nothing* for about 3 hours?

Sounds great.

Actually, that's one reason why I fell in love with Mr. Treehugger. He's so nice and quiet ... we can literally sit together for hours w/o saying anything and feel close at the same time.

[zharkov]

I'm actually wondering if this behavior isn't the sign of some kind of personality disorder, even if she seems totally normal and then some in most other ways.

I think strong extraverts often seem like that to strong introverts.  And vice versa.  I agree with the idea of not meeting at home, so something like a coffee shop or for lunch or whatnot, so you can beat a retreat when the time comes.

[obprof]

All you have to do is point into the distance and say, loudly, "Hey! Look over there!!"

Then run.

[caesura]

I have a similar, but real, suggestion:  grip her hand or forearm firmly, make eye contact, and say clearly, "I love you, honey, but I have to go right now."  Then turn and leave without guilt.

[tuxedo_cat]

I have a similar, but real, suggestion:  grip her hand or forearm firmly, make eye contact, and say clearly, "I love you, honey, but I have to go right now."  Then turn and leave without guilt.

Ok, fess up caesura:  you're secretly E. Jean Carroll, infamous agony aunt of ELLE magazine, right?

[itried]

I don't think the OP is necessarily saying the friend won't leave her place; she specifically says that the friend won't even leave a restaurant or other public place when it's closing, so the solution isn't avoiding meetings at home.

I have a friend who talks incessantly about herself. When she finally gets around to asking me about myself, or when I finally get a word in edgewise to relate a personal story, she looks around distractedly until she can begin talking about herself again. I recently made the decision to dump her. She's exhausting. It sounds harsh, but I'm done spending time with friends who suck me dry. For me, feeling obligated to "friends" I don't really like very much was me playing out my pattern of putting other people's feelings before my own, and those days are over.

treehugger1, do you really want this friendship in your life? Friends can break up too.

[polly_mer]

I have a similar, but real, suggestion:  grip her hand or forearm firmly, make eye contact, and say clearly, "I love you, honey, but I have to go right now."  Then turn and leave without guilt.

This.  I've had to start doing it with a couple of people.  I love to talk, but I also sometimes have a tight schedule.  Making appointments to talk and then sticking to the "I have to leave/hang up at <time>" works well.  I do the approximately ten minute warning of "I have to leave in ten minutes.  What haven't we said that really needs to be said now?" and then at the predetermined time, I say good-bye, it's been a great talk, but I have to go do something else, and leave/hang up.

[treehugger1]

I have a friend who talks incessantly about herself. When she finally gets around to asking me about myself, or when I finally get a word in edgewise to relate a personal story, she looks around distractedly until she can begin talking about herself again. I recently made the decision to dump her. She's exhausting. It sounds harsh, but I'm done spending time with friends who suck me dry. For me, feeling obligated to "friends" I don't really like very much was me playing out my pattern of putting other people's feelings before my own, and those days are over.

I completely understand wanting to dump annoying "friend." What makes it hard is when you know for a fact that you will run into this person again because your circles overlap or you live close by. In this case, I think it's harder to just dump someone w/o an explanation. Did you do this? Or did you have some more or less subtle talk with the (ex-)friend?

treehugger1, do you really want this friendship in your life? Friends can break up too.

To be perfectly honest (and, heck, isn't this why we have anonymous internet fora?) it's a complicated question.

One reason I sincerely value her friendship is because she's OK with meeting up only a few times a year. She's another academic, so she totally gets that I can't/don't want to go out for lunch 2x a week. And, when we do meet up, we have an terrific time for the first two hours or so. She's bright, witty and doesn't just talk about herself! What's not to like? It's just that it always seem to go downhill after the 2-2 1/2 hour mark. She seems to totally get the social cues because when I say I have to leave she usually starts talking faster and she gets "nicer." If she was talking too much about herself she tries to get me to talk more about me (and I resist). I've also heard her brag about other friendships in terms of "talk time:" Oh we're terrific friends -- we talk for hours and hours!" All this leaves me wondering if she just has a strange idea about what friendship is, or has some kind of fear of abandonment, or is engaging in some kind of weird power struggle with me, or wants to confirm to herself that she is some kind of scintillating conversationalist, or something even stranger.

Another issue is that I've having problems establishing other friendships in this area (we moved here a few years ago). The University (where I don't actually work anymore but am still very much peripherally attached) is a large commuter school w/o much sense of community among the faculty. I tried (almost) in vain to have any kind of social contact with profs in my department (mainly my suggestions and friendly emails were totally ignored). Mr. Treehugger's department is huge and full of professors valiantly slaving away to publish, publish, publish, teach, teach, teach, etc. They don't even have that pro-forma gesture towards community -- the annual departmental pick-nick!

I am involved in lots of group activities in the area (including some in which I play a leadership role) and am acquaintances with tons of people (OK at least 100+), but somehow the friendships aren't happening. Again, some of this is my fault. I want friendships as I want them ... the let's have a heart-to-heart talk every month or so kind. I know that there are some people who wouldn't mind yakking with me for hours every day, but really, I do want to spend most of days doing research and not engaged in mindless social chit-chat.

[sugaree]

So you only meet up with her 2x/year and you can't hang out and talk for more than 2.5 hours? I would be annoyed too if this were an every week thing, but come on ... life is too short to work all the time. If you enjoy this friend mostly, I would stretch your comfort zone a bit and put up with her. If you don't, then ease her out of your life entirely.

You don't get to entirely dictate the boundaries of friendship and neither does she, but just how much "wasted time" are we talking about here? And really, is your time so valuable that you cannot spare a few extra hours a few times a year for a friend?

[aprilmay]

Subtle hints like looking at your watch do not work, so just continue with your plan of making a specific time to leave, saying "Enjoyed seeing you", and leave. If she acts like she does not want you to leave, she probably does this to everyone and is used to people just leaving. You have tried to be more polite, but it does not work, so I do not think it is impolite of you to be abrupt.

I've also heard her brag about other friendships in terms of "talk time:" Oh we're terrific friends -- we talk for hours and hours!" All this leaves me wondering if she just has a strange idea about what friendship is, or has some kind of fear of abandonment, or is engaging in some kind of weird power struggle with me, or wants to confirm to herself that she is some kind of scintillating conversationalist, or something even stranger.

This is not her having a weird idea of what friendship is. She understands that deep friendship is more than meeting someone a year and then trying desperately to get away after 2 hours. She wants to be closer friends with you. You probably cannot give her that, but it is not odd of her to want it. Be flattered. She may be on a forum now asking about the odd friend who only wants to see her briefly and then runs away after a couple of hours.

This is not a friendship. It sounds like you do not respect her. To use your wording, you find her "entertaining". I would not want to be friends with someone who could only stand me 6-8 hours a year, or with someone who made me want to run away from seeing her. You are not doing her a favor by pretending to like her. Find real friends and let her be with people who appreciate her talkative nature.

[theblondeassassin]

Ah, the gaping chasm of incomprehensibility between the introvert and the extravert. How I've missed you, darling.

treehugger1, I have a dear friend like this, only s/he talks really, really loud as well. (To the point I have to hold the phone 18 inches away for it not to be painful.)

The only other tip I can offer is that timing relative to other social occasions can be important for you to make sure that you have time to recharge your introvert "batteries" both before and after you see her  - try to see her during relatively quiet periods rather than immediately following or preceding another big social day.