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[ianie]

Hi, I haven't posted here much over the years, but I very much appreciate what I've read while lurking, and hope the following may provoke some discussion.

Looking over postings in the UK, I'm a little puzzled by the numbers. Salaries for Senior Lecturers (the rank I think I'm best qualified for), are in the range of £40-49K, to judge by the THE: http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/jobs_category.asp?cc=10233

That works out to about $64-80K for what is the equivalent of an Associate Professorship. What I'm wondering is where most jobs actually fall on this range (or at what point in your career do you achieve these levels)? And, can one live on these salaries in a place like London? My understanding was that the cost of living was rather high.

(To clarify, I'm not actively applying for a positing in the UK at present, but am thinking of doing so in the future, depending on my sense of whether it can make sense at all financially, about which I'm beginning to have my doubts.)

[quasihumanist]

One of the facts many Americans don't know is that Americans have a higher standard of living, measured in terms of stuff, than the British.

Everyone over there just gets by with slightly less.

At that salary, you'll be making more than most people in London, so I'm sure you can live on that salary there.

[totoro]

Yeah, salaries in the UK are not so high. They can be even worse in some European countries like Italy and France. real GDP per capita is higher in the US than in other developed countries.

[the_walrus]

One of the facts many Americans don't know is that Americans have a higher standard of living, measured in terms of stuff, than the British.

I think that is absolutely true.  But I also think that brits have a higher quality of life.  Work/life balance here is, in my view, much better.  People take more holidays and work to live, rather than live to work.

RE salary, I'm not sure what uni that's at; the SL scale varies according to university.  At mine, for example, SL starts at £47k and runs up to £55k.  Either way, in London it'd be tricky on an american-style lifestyle.

As to where you get placed on the scale, if you're associate professor, there would be some negotiation.  But if you're not placed on the top of the scale, you go up one "point" per year until you do reach the top of the scale, so it wouldn't be long until you were there. 

[scotia]

One of the facts many Americans don't know is that Americans have a higher standard of living, measured in terms of stuff, than the British.

I think that is absolutely true.  But I also think that brits have a higher quality of life.  Work/life balance here is, in my view, much better.  People take more holidays and work to live, rather than live to work.

RE salary, I'm not sure what uni that's at; the SL scale varies according to university.  At mine, for example, SL starts at £47k and runs up to £55k.  Either way, in London it'd be tricky on an american-style lifestyle.

As to where you get placed on the scale, if you're associate professor, there would be some negotiation.  But if you're not placed on the top of the scale, you go up one "point" per year until you do reach the top of the scale, so it wouldn't be long until you were there. 

Comparing SL salaries is fraught with problems because the title can mean two different things. I think the SL-scale quoted is at a post-92 institution, which makes it equivalent to Lecturer B at a pre-92. This makes it more comparable to Assistant Professor rather than Associate Professor. For a better comparison you need to look at the SL scale for institutions that were universities prior to 1992 (a pre-92 university) or at the Principal Lecturer scale in a post-92 institution. At my university (a pre-92) the SL range is as the_walrus describes.

It is also worth remembering that there is an awful lot more to the UK than London. Many of us have very good lives outside the metropolis.

[britmom]

I'm in the Humanities at a pre-92 University. The salary for SL's starts at £47 000 and goes up to £52 000. There are also 2 discretionary points (you have to apply to move on to these); these would take you up to £55 000.

From what I can gather, salaries vary more between both Universities and subject areas in the US. Therefore, UK salaries may seem very attractive to an American in the Humanities, but perhaps not so much in other areas. (I think?)

It is also worth remembering that there is an awful lot more to the UK than London. Many of us have very good lives outside the metropolis.

Here, here! I wouldn't want to live in London for all the tea in China. As far as I am concerned, I have a fantastic quality of life, although it would be tougher if I was the only wage earner as we have two pre-school children. (I'm on grade 8).  I have a large detached house, two cars, excellent schools and healthcare, amazing countryside, good facilities, low crime, good travel links with the rest of the UK/Europe. We'd be living like paupers if we were in London.

'Quality of life', however, is incredibly subjective. What's important to you?

[monita]

Bookmarking.  We're finally deciding to take the big leap across the pond (we've been talking about it for a while, since husband is English and not thrilled with the US), and I'm having trouble imagining how salaries/academic in general differ from the US.  I think we have a fairly British standard of living anyway (we're much more focused on family time, travel, and security than on a big house or a lot of stuff) so I think we'd adjust okay.  It's just hard to know exactly what Xpounds /year actually means, when you're used to dollars.

[theblondeassassin]

Bookmarking.  We're finally deciding to take the big leap across the pond (we've been talking about it for a while, since husband is English and not thrilled with the US), and I'm having trouble imagining how salaries/academic in general differ from the US.  I think we have a fairly British standard of living anyway (we're much more focused on family time, travel, and security than on a big house or a lot of stuff) so I think we'd adjust okay.  It's just hard to know exactly what Xpounds /year actually means, when you're used to dollars.

I'm not wildly extravagant, and I do have a particularly good post now compared with my bog-standard previous post(s), but I've found that uncosted indirect benefits such as national health, public transport, etc., make up a good deal of ground on the lower direct salaries.

If you have children, however, you might want to focus on how you will be affected by the changing cost of education, as this is changing rapidly -- especially if you have a child who will be university-aged before you are properly domiciled.

[the_walrus]

I'm not wildly extravagant, and I do have a particularly good post now compared with my bog-standard previous post(s), but I've found that uncosted indirect benefits such as national health, public transport, etc., make up a good deal of ground on the lower direct salaries.

True.  Also, the pension, at least before they started messing about with it, is probably better than the average retirement package in the states, from what I can tell.  E.g., I think I'd take what we have here over a standard defined contribution scheme to which the employer pays in 10% (or less). 

[totoro]

Yes, employer retirement contributions here in Australia are also a lot higher than the norm in the US and add quite a bit to salaries. We also have free-ish health care but government retirement benefits are means tested and so worse than US social security. I expect that US sco sec is better than UK government pensions too.

[ianie]

I just wanted to thank everyone for all the useful information. Lots of research to do here.

(I should explain that my question about London was not due to my belief that London is the only place in the UK to live, but rather to the fact that one always hears--and experiences as a tourist--how pricy it is on a global scale, making it a special case of the general question.)