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[zharkov]

Still confused and scared, and stressed out about the pending summons/lawsuit.  I was thinking to hunker down in an old house to fix up in Michigan (there's a fire sale up there on houses right now) either that or move to Europe.

If the housing market is depressed, that is a good signal the people don't want to live there.  And I suspect the chances of getting a well paying (or even average paying) job are slim to non-existent. 

[hegemony]

Even a $10,000 house (as you say on another thread) is going to be a losing deal unless you are very lucky.  It's $10,000 because it needs so much rehab to make it habitable, and/or it's in an area where no one wants to buy houses at all.  You could put in the sweat equity and fix it up (but you'd need some cash to do this -- and without much income, and all that student debt, I still think you'd be hemorrhaging money), but whether you could make money in that area, or offload the house if you needed to move, both sound doubtful to me. Similarly, what would you do in Europe?  Do you have residency?  Do you have job prospects?  Or is it a seat-of-the-pants kind of plan?

I'm afraid your philosophy of money sounds to me like "Spend some now and I bet some will come in later" or "Spend some now and sidle out from debt later."  To my mind, a more serious plan of action with a lot of solid financial planning would serve you better.

Incidentally, I come from a city where the city tries to sell houses for $1, but can't get takers.  We gave up the house I grew up in and it was torn down.  I worked my way through school and grad school via umpteen jobs.  So it's not the case that these suggestions are coming down from the privileged classes on high.

[academicentrepreneur]

I'm afraid your philosophy of money sounds to me like "Spend some now and I bet some will come in later" or "Spend some now and sidle out from debt later."  To my mind, a more serious plan of action with a lot of solid financial planning would serve you better.

I agree with hegemony (the person, not the concept.) You sound like you're trying to weasel out of debts that you legitimately owe, and are justifying your actions by demonizing your creditors. By doing so, you're passing the costs of your financial obligations onto others who had nothing to do with your decision to take out these loans and charge things to credit cards. That's unethical. To those of us who pay higher interest rates on loans and credit cards because of defaults such as you're proposing, the fact that these were 7-10 of the most enjoyable years of your life is irrelevant.

This isn't a matter of scolding. But as a matter of personal integrity you should pay your own debts. (I'd have much more sympathy if your credit card bills were due to unanticipated medical expenses or something similarly out of your control.)

Sit down with a legitimate credit counselor. Work out a payment plan. Stick with it. Get a second job--any job--to expedite repayment. Go to bed dog-tired at the end of the day from all of the effort you're temporarily expending. You'll learn more about yourself by doing this than you learned in all of your years as a student.

[arts_and_sciences]

If they won't prove it's your debt, tell it to the judge. You don't recall it being yours and they can't prove it. Also, if you are pro se, then you are allowed to see what they have against you, so you'll know beforehand if they have the goods or not.

As for the letter--it doesn't matter if it's cut and paste off the webz. It has all the necessary information.

But hey, if you know a better way--knock yourself out.

The reason for the DV letter is I would like to see the details of whatever documents they have about me, and I'll have to decide to retain counsel soon, though I'm getting fair advice through various channels this one being quite a good one. 

I went to the post office today and got certified letter labels and signature confirmation, got about 5-10 of each decal in case I need more lol. 

I think I'll send the debt validation this week, because they only sent me their complaint letter, two pages of the original account statement (with my name and acct#) and a bill of sale as exhibit C, of a BofA vice prez assigning affiant.  But..don't they need a copy of my original application to original creditor and signature?  Is that enough for an open and shut case for them?  I dunno they may have it.

Oh yeah, and do I have to mail copy of the debt validation letter to the court also?  Or do I send my notice of appearance (motion for extension) with a brief note that I need a 90 day extension in which to seek legal counsel (since they sprang it on me last minute)   And I hadn't even heard of Midland Funding LLC until they appeared on my credit report last month, and this is their first contact to me ( a summons how nice) so I believe it's within my rights to validate the debt, and also an extension hopefully.

I'm a pretty good writer, and I've got some properly (I think) captioned documents drafted up to send to the courthouse when I need to.  I 'm not going to show up.  This will all be done by mail, by me, or possibly via attorney.

I'm thinking I could handle this pro se.  Though it's sorta obvious I'm in over my head somewhat.

I guess my question is:  Since I do really need the extension and need to be assured that the debt is valid.  Could I file and copy this (dv letter, request for extension) to courts and plaintiffs attnys at the same time?

[prytania3]

I'm afraid your philosophy of money sounds to me like "Spend some now and I bet some will come in later" or "Spend some now and sidle out from debt later."  To my mind, a more serious plan of action with a lot of solid financial planning would serve you better.

I agree with hegemony (the person, not the concept.) You sound like you're trying to weasel out of debts that you legitimately owe, and are justifying your actions by demonizing your creditors. By doing so, you're passing the costs of your financial obligations onto others who had nothing to do with your decision to take out these loans and charge things to credit cards. That's unethical. To those of us who pay higher interest rates on loans and credit cards because of defaults such as you're proposing, the fact that these were 7-10 of the most enjoyable years of your life is irrelevant.

This isn't a matter of scolding. But as a matter of personal integrity you should pay your own debts. (I'd have much more sympathy if your credit card bills were due to unanticipated medical expenses or something similarly out of your control.)

Sit down with a legitimate credit counselor. Work out a payment plan. Stick with it. Get a second job--any job--to expedite repayment. Go to bed dog-tired at the end of the day from all of the effort you're temporarily expending. You'll learn more about yourself by doing this than you learned in all of your years as a student.

Don't blame him--it was my idea. But you bet, if those a**holes can't prove a debt is yours, then who needs to pay it. It would behoove them to be a little more careful with their paperwork, and by the time they merge and factor, they don't have a clue where the paperwork is.

And whether he pays or not has nothing to do with your interest rates going higher--not at this stage of the game.  These debts have been factored out and bought for pennies on the dollar by some slimeball debt collector, an independent company, so he would not be paying his original creditor; therefore, it would make no difference to *your* interest rate at this point. That is water under the bridge.

[academicentrepreneur]

Don't blame him--it was my idea. But you bet, if those a**holes can't prove a debt is yours, then who needs to pay it. It would behoove them to be a little more careful with their paperwork, and by the time they merge and factor, they don't have a clue where the paperwork is.

And whether he pays or not has nothing to do with your interest rates going higher--not at this stage of the game.  These debts have been factored out and bought for pennies on the dollar by some slimeball debt collector, an independent company, so he would not be paying his original creditor; therefore, it would make no difference to *your* interest rate at this point. That is water under the bridge.

I respectfully disagree. The debt--which is what I was alluding to, not the letter--was his decision. Making an ad hominem attack on credit card companies, as much as it feels good and may be warranted by some of the outrageous things they've done, does not address that fundamental point. He ran up debt and is looking for ways to avoid taking full financial responsibility for his actions. That, to me, is unethical and inappropriate.

Similarly, the fact that a debt has been factored and that the payments go to someone else is true but irrelevant to my point. While there are other reasons why credit card and unsecured loan rates are so high, anticipated write-offs play a significant role. Stating that it's OK not to pay what you owe because it's built into the price of the loan is like saying that it's OK to steal towels from a hotel because they expect a certain percentage of guests to do so. It's still theft.

[kaysixteen]

Given time and distance, etc., it certainly is possible that, even if one knows one does have outstanding debts, that one could still be contacted by a collection agency and asked to pay debt that is not one's own and/or had already been paid off.  Nothing seems wrong with forcing those insisting you pay to prove the need to do so...

[prytania3]

Given time and distance, etc., it certainly is possible that, even if one knows one does have outstanding debts, that one could still be contacted by a collection agency and asked to pay debt that is not one's own and/or had already been paid off.  Nothing seems wrong with forcing those insisting you pay to prove the need to do so...

And I know this scenario. I paid something off and it went to a debt collector, and I was like, dude, paid this. I even sent them a copy of the letter showing payment, and they still kept hassling me. So I finally resorted to  "prove it belongs to me." They couldn't and went away.

But *not* keeping proof of debt obligations is the reason people have all kinds of stuff on their credit report that doesn't belong to them. It's the reason identity theft rages on. It's why the crazy banks were foreclosing on houses when the owners were current on their mortgage and had never been late a payment. So yeah, the paperwork matters, and if they can't get keep the paperwork straight, they don't deserve to get paid because not keeping the paperwork causes a lot of people a world of trouble.

Don't even get me started on sloppy paperwork.

[arts_and_sciences]

Obviously I agree with Prytania and Kaysixteen.

[wet_blanket]

I think writing the letter is a good plan.  And, in no way is it unethical to ask the collector to prove the debt is yours.

But don't get your hopes up.  It's not like not a single lender in the country keeps good paperwork.  You should view this as a way to buy time to make some plans and to save for when they show you it's your debt, not a get out of jail free card.

[prytania3]

I think writing the letter is a good plan.  And, in no way is it unethical to ask the collector to prove the debt is yours.

But don't get your hopes up.  It's not like not a single lender in the country keeps good paperwork.  You should view this as a way to buy time to make some plans and to save for when they show you it's your debt, not a get out of jail free card.

Actually most don't keep good records. That's why it's so hard to get stuff off your credit report that's not yours. It's why people lose everything when they are a victim of identity theft.

[arts_and_sciences]

 I respectfully disagree with what some of have said here, I think there's been some interesting perspectives on this.  clean seems to have more of an interesting plan I think, given the circumstances, and prytania and kaysixteen seem to understand my side of things.  zharkov, it's nice to know I'm not the only one from this background,

and rather than argue the very morality of free market capitalism, or bankruptcy, or banking or the credit system, with anyone, I just needed some perspective on this,  

so thanks for that  

I'm just an average guy, born to working immigrant parents; my folks btw largely clueless about how higher ed works, though they as hard-working and debt-averse as some you in here seem to be, just saying, though for some only a car loan and a mortgage are really necessary debts, and I have neither of those, in fact a bike and an apartment was what worked for me.

I think of my education as an investment in my future, (I studied hard) and money is just a tool and a store of value right? My education is an intangible asset that carry with me all the time.

Debt doesn't have to always be soul-crushing does it?  btw the thread is named "crushing debt" not "soul-crushing debt".  Maybe I should start a new thread lol

[prytania3]

Yes, debt is soul crushing. Sorry, but that's the reality.

Personally, I think education lending is the most predatory practice around--way worse than the mortgage lenders every dreamt of being.

[wet_blanket]

I think of my education as an investment in my future, (I studied hard) and money is just a tool and a store of value right? My education is an intangible asset that carry with me all the time.

Personally, I think education lending is the most predatory practice around--way worse than the mortgage lenders every dreamt of being.

Pry is probably right, as usual.

 I'm sure someone has posted here before about how much education is worth in terms of increased future earnings, and diminishing returns after a certain price point and degree level.  I don't have the figures at hand, but I don't think $129k (or is it $150k since you've already spent that other $21k in your head) is on the good end.

The way you talk about your education makes me think of an expensive painting or sculpture or something.  Though art and education can be both monetarily valuable and intrinsically valuable, having a high intrinsic value doesn't mean it will necessarily have a high monetary value.

[anon99]

Given time and distance, etc., it certainly is possible that, even if one knows one does have outstanding debts, that one could still be contacted by a collection agency and asked to pay debt that is not one's own and/or had already been paid off.  Nothing seems wrong with forcing those insisting you pay to prove the need to do so...

And I know this scenario. I paid something off and it went to a debt collector, and I was like, dude, paid this. I even sent them a copy of the letter showing payment, and they still kept hassling me. So I finally resorted to  "prove it belongs to me." They couldn't and went away.

But *not* keeping proof of debt obligations is the reason people have all kinds of stuff on their credit report that doesn't belong to them. It's the reason identity theft rages on. It's why the crazy banks were foreclosing on houses when the owners were current on their mortgage and had never been late a payment. So yeah, the paperwork matters, and if they can't get keep the paperwork straight, they don't deserve to get paid because not keeping the paperwork causes a lot of people a world of trouble.

In this case, I can see asking them to prove it, but for the OP he knows the debt is his.  Essentially this is a delay tactic.  OP I don't know how many people come from a high income background, but I didn't and yes I paid for my education.  I don't think any parent should have to pay for their child's education.  If you are living with your parents, where else would you expect them to serve the papers?

They served my process papers at my parents house, while my cousin and aunt were visiting..depressing
Unfortunately for me its within the statute of limitations for my state.

I moved back in with my parents to save up money, and now I'm a distance learning student.
...
I'm a poor working class dude, my parents didn't save for my college, hence my huge debt.  But college/graduate school was the best 7-10 yrs of my life by far.  I carefully budgeted and was able to graduate undergrad and grad while living below poverty level and rent (housing) was my biggest expense. 

I have to agree with clean.  Why are you getting a second masters degree?

So you are 12 hours from finishing?  You have 21K?  FINISH  NOW.  Are the 12 hours available this semester?  Quit your job, move on campus, suck it up and GRADUATE!  21 K will more than pay for that. 

Get the money out of the traceable account and get on with life! 

Graduate!