next »

[will_rally_soon]

Howdy.  I had drinks recently with a grad school pal.  She's up for tenure and was asking me questions about my experience (I went up a couple of years ago).  The more she revealed, the more outrageous I found the situation.  She's in a service department with no major, yet the junior faculty are expected to publish actively (recent cases include books and several peer-reviewed articles).  What gives?  The expectations for her review seem similar to my selective SLAC.  The institutional culture is not friendly to her discipline and the service and teaching requirements seem pretty demanding as well.

Needless to say, while she seemed grateful for the job, I felt pretty ticked off.

[sagit]

I'm not familiar with "service departments."  How is her situation different than other departments at her University other than not having majors?

[euro_trash]

OP, what is a service department?

[titian]

Where I've worked a service department is one that teaches courses that fulfill liberal studies or general education requirements, but do not have actual majors (might have minors). 

One place did not have a Classics major, but someone taught Latin.  Or the sociologist who taught courses required by the nursing program, but again no majors in that area.  Foreign languages at another place.  These were all small schools and did not have the enrollment to justify a full program in some areas.   

[neutralname]

I don't see what the problem is.  All tenure track faculty at a school should have roughly similar T&P standards -- or at least that's the default approach. 

If you didn't want to structure your school that way, the alternative would be to have a two-tier system, with research faculty and teaching faculty.  I suppose some schools do go in that direction, but it too has its problems. 

[laurel_knx]

I work in a department where we teach service courses meaning that we teach the methods courses that all grad students in the college have to take (the classes are a "service" to other departments). We have a few majors, but more or less we are in the same boat as OP's friend.

I don't find it unfair because in methodological work there are lots of avenues for solo analysis work or collaborations with other departments.  So I don't see the T&P requirements as more onerous for me than other people in the college. My teaching load is also not any heavier. I would expect if I had more classes than other TT folks, that my requirements for research would be correspondingly lower.

OP, are you saying that she has higher teaching loads but the same research expectations or are you just shocked that she's expected to produce without the assistance of graduate students?

[untenured]

I know people that work in service departments.  Their publication requirements are similar to those in 'major granting' departments.  Seems appropriate unless there is some different burden that is placed upon them.

[onthefringe]

I know people that work in service departments.  Their publication requirements are similar to those in 'major granting' departments.  Seems appropriate unless there is some different burden that is placed upon them.

Especially as there are numerous departments with degree granting programs that also provide significant "service" courses. At my U, Chemistry is a huge, well thought of (easily top 10 or 20 in some subfields) department with undergraduate majors and a well-regarded PhD program. However, if you count up student contact hours, the vast majority of teaching done in the Chemistry Department is the required course sequences for the huge biology major -- several sections each term of 200 - 300 premeds, most of whom who hate chemistry. Now that's a huge amount of service on top of everything else, and nobody is reducing their P&T requirements.

[offthemarket]

So because your department doesn't have majors, you're not expected to be a scholar?

[euro_trash]

Do people in the service departments have to supervise theses or research projects?  If not, this might even give them more time for research.

[totoro]

Maybe the issue is that the service department faculty have to teach more courses than other faculty?

[glowdart]

Maybe the issue is that the service department faculty have to teach more courses than other faculty?

I was wondering about that -- or perhaps they teach more students?  

Or, perhaps the OP is responding less to the service department aspect and more to a situation wherein a person with a 4/4 of high-enrollment service courses has to publish the same amount as someone teaching a 2/2 of small majors only classes, where the subject of the classes is related to a research agenda?

Anyway, maybe when the OP comes back, we'll get some clarity.   

[untenured]

Anyway, maybe when the OP comes back, we'll get some clarity.   

If.

[bonn1997]

Anyway, maybe when the OP comes back, we'll get some clarity.   

If.

I'm wondering if this is another one of those "I have a friend who..." stories where the friend is the OP.

[will_rally_soon]

Maybe the issue is that the service department faculty have to teach more courses than other faculty?

I was wondering about that -- or perhaps they teach more students?  

Or, perhaps the OP is responding less to the service department aspect and more to a situation wherein a person with a 4/4 of high-enrollment service courses has to publish the same amount as someone teaching a 2/2 of small majors only classes, where the subject of the classes is related to a research agenda?

Anyway, maybe when the OP comes back, we'll get some clarity.   

Yes, you've captured the situation.  Friend has 4/4 load and teaches only required, gen-ed courses with higher enrollments than one would get teaching major seminars.  No major seems to translate into fewer library resources, yet the expectation--because the market allows for it--is that hu publish about the same as more research-oriented departments.  Departments like hu's usually have fewer full-time members, which means that service requirements are heavy for the few full-timers there. 

I felt angry for hu and just wanted to vent.  What keeps institutions from placing unreasonable demands in this market?