next »

[2lemmas]

I was on the market this year in a STEM field and got an offer of a TT job that has as many minuses as pluses.  On the advice of my mentors (who are seeing their own depts halt hiring due to the lousy federal budget outlook and who thought that there simply wouldn't be many positions posted next year), I accepted it.  However, I have some SERIOUS reservations about it.

The paperwork's not done yet (I anticipate it will be soon), and until the paperwork is signed/sealed/delivered, I'm keeping my options open.  I don't intend to renege, so at that point I'll withdraw from the places that are still considering me for the 2011-2012 year.  However, I'm starting to see early postings in my field for positions starting 2012, some with deadlines that are before I even start at Compromise U, and they're VERY tempting.

How bad is it to apply to these from my current position, with the intention of leaving Compromise U after a year if something better pans out?  At what stage do I need to mention the Compromise U position to the  prospective U's?  At what stage would I need to tell Compromise U?  If I apply now, and get an interview a month or two into my position at Compromise U, what's the safest & most ethical way to play it?

[larryc]

AFTDJ.

[xckrx]

I really wouldn't worry about any of this! There is nothing bad about applying for better jobs from a current position. And you owe it to yourself to find the best career fit possible.

[systeme_d_]

Yes, AFTDJs.

If you are not happy with your new job (assuming you end up there in the fall), then keep applying.   When you sign a contract with a university, it doesn't mean you are in thrall to them for life.  You are certainly allowed to leave after a year if a better position is offered to you.  However, it would indeed be unethical to leave Compromise U before the end of the first school year, since you will be under contract with them for the entire academic year.

You need to put your affiliation with Compromise U on your CV after you sign the contract with them.  

There is no inflexible rule about letting your new chair know about your applications.  If your field is small, and word of interviews gets around fast, you might consider being open with your chair about your search.  If your field is huge, your new department is dysfunctional, and your new chair is a jerk, then keep your mouth shut in case none of your applications pan out.

If you are offered another job while in your first year at Compromise U, and you decide to take it, do make sure to tell your chair as soon as possible, so that s/he can arrange to replace you.  

[ruralguy]

Its hard to say at what stage you should tell your colleagues about your new search without knowing a thing about them. However, in the absence of any other information, I'd lean towards saying zero until a contract is signed and recieved by the other place. Until then, you officially do not have a job with anybody else and so do not owe it to current place.

One what hand, yes, AFTDJ, but, on the other, go into this with an open mind and heart. That is, if you have to teach more than you wanted to or have no lab or whatever, try to make the most of it anyway. It just may be the place you want/need to grant you tenure in 6 years, so always, always do your best job at WHAT THE SCHOOL SEES AS ITS PRIMARY MISSION. If that ain't research, then research has to be something you do on the side. I am not saying "don't do it"...you'll need to...but you'll also need to keep up with what Compromise U
considers to be important.

Now, you didn't say that high teaching load was the issue, but I suspect thats part of it, since its probably the second complaint after salary that comes in with these sorts of postings (along with toxic colleagues, no support for library/lab/computing, low quality students, bad location, etc.)

[2lemmas]

AFTDJ.

Boy, was I hoping to hear that! [I admit having no compunctions about continuing to look -- it's a job, not a marriage!  But then, I also have no scruples WRT reneging, though I understand why people see it as bad form. I wasn't entirely sure I could trust my moral compass here.]

Still need help logistically, though... all my job searches have always been with the open support of my dept & supervisor, so I have no idea how a covert hunt works!

• If I apply to Potential U while I'm still at Postdoc Inst (some have application deadlines before my Compromise U start date), when do I update them that I've gone to Compromise U? When I start at Comp U, or when they decide to interview, or...?
• Do I need to explain to Potential U my reasons for not staying in a TT position at Compromise U?
• How do I keep things under Compromise U's radar (I'm quite certain it's best to do so; evidence of dept dysfunctionality filled the "cons" list) -- do I ask Potential U not to contact Comp U?  And do I just tell Comp U need a couple days off for personal reasons if Pot U wants to interview me?

On preview:

One what hand, yes, AFTDJ, but, on the other, go into this with an open mind and heart. That is, if you have to teach more than you wanted to or have no lab or whatever, try to make the most of it anyway. It just may be the place you want/need to grant you tenure in 6 years, so always, always do your best job at WHAT THE SCHOOL SEES AS ITS PRIMARY MISSION. If that ain't research, then research has to be something you do on the side. I am not saying "don't do it"...you'll need to...but you'll also need to keep up with what Compromise U considers to be important.

This is really great advice, and I am trying so hard to do that!  I don't want to go there dreading it; it'll suck the fun out of my research :P

But... that's also something I'm struggling with.  It's hard to explain w/o divulging too much, but the type of work they say they want (and which I do) seems at odds with their actual needs.  As a result, they exert social and financial pressures on the faculty in my discipline to take on work that is not rewarded at tenure time (a ham-fisted analogy would be to expect a visual artist to bring in money that is best acquired as a housepainter, but then only considering their art portfolio), and so the faculty in my field have been slipping out of the tenure stream left and right :(  The mixed messages of what Compromise U actually values is part of my hesitation w. the job, but also something that makes it hard to know how to "make the most of it."

[systeme_d_]

Still need help logistically, though... all my job searches have always been with the open support of my dept & supervisor, so I have no idea how a covert hunt works!

• If I apply to Potential U while I'm still at Postdoc Inst (some have application deadlines before my Compromise U start date), when do I update them that I've gone to Compromise U? When I start at Comp U, or when they decide to interview, or...?
• Do I need to explain to Potential U my reasons for not staying in a TT position at Compromise U?
• How do I keep things under Compromise U's radar (I'm quite certain it's best to do so; evidence of dept dysfunctionality filled the "cons" list) -- do I ask Potential U not to contact Comp U?  And do I just tell Comp U need a couple days off for personal reasons if Pot U wants to interview me?

1) If you are contacted for an interview, send them an updated CV that lists your new affiliation.

2a) For the jobs with deadlines before you sign a contract with Compromise U:  You will probably be asked this question in an interview.  You might consider answering with a brief explanation of whatever is behind your artist/painter analogy above.

2b) For the jobs with deadlines after you sign a contract with Compromise U:  You should probably address this head-on in your cover letter with a statement like "Although I will be starting at CU in the fall, the position at Desirable U is a much better fit for me because..."   

3a) Confidentiality: You can ask, in your cover letter, for search committees to refrain from contacting anyone at Compromise U, but that does not mean they will respect your request.  (This is one of the many reasons it is usually more desirable to be up-front with current employers about being on the market.)

3b) Interview scheduling:  Either schedule your interviews on non-teaching days, get someone to cover your classes, or cancel your classes.  At every university I've ever worked, you don't get "days off" -- especially for "personal reasons" -- by asking permission of someone.  You do notify the students that class is cancelled, and you do let the administrative assistant know that you are deathly ill. 

[larryc]

AFTDJ.

Boy, was I hoping to hear that!

Glad to oblige.

As for searching in your first year, keep in mind that some of your colleagues (who do think of your position as akin to a marriage) would not be pleased, and that no matter how careful you are, they may find out. Be prepared for the day when your chair comes into your office and demands to know why you applied for a job at University X, where his old college roommate is chair.

[ruralguy]

Flat out cancelling classes is a serious no-no at some places.

I would do that as a real last resort...such as if you know you hate the place, and don't care if they don't
renew your contract. try your absolute best to : (a) find a sub (b) re-schedule for a time that would fit a vast majority of the class (c) have replacement activity during class time that they must show you proof of accomplishment....

As far as a statement such as "what they want is against their needs" is, frankly, an almost laughably naive
statement. Of course, that will often be the case. Most small schools, or underfunded big ones have to do whatever they last thought of to bring in more $$. In may or may not be a great idea, but its an idea that some administrator or chair or faculty committee thought of, so you kind of have to do it.  I and my colleagues can think of 100 great ideas that my school isn't interested in doing, and 100 bad ones that they are backing to the hilt...oh well.

You might want to: (1) renege now if you have other alternatives and you know you hate it....OR, (2)
wait at least 1 year before applying to other places.


I

[ex_mo]

I'm curious how you know how terrible this job will be at this point.  You haven't started yet, have you?  I'm sure that you may have misgivings, and it may be that you are absolutely right about how awful this job is.  But the only guaranteed way to make sure that the job is awful is if you go in to it expecting it to be awful.

So apply for all the jobs you want, taking the advice given her into consideration, but also recognize that you may not get a better job.  So make the best of what you have for now.

[steamboat_willie]

I'm not sure your plan is realistic, more from a practical standpoint than an ethical standpoint.  The first year in a STEM tenure-track position is pretty intense- being really in charge of classes instead of a TA, having to really plow through grants, etc.  Interviewing on top of that is a lot of energy that might not amount to much.  You might be better off throwing that energy into proposals and publications, and then leaving later on.

[2lemmas]

Only b/c it's come up a few times: I will not be teaching this year, so canceling classes, balancing research & instruction, etc are not issues.

(Still, I take the point about adding the exhaustion of interviewing to the trials of one's first year in a TT job, teaching or not.  As far as conflict between departmental pressures & tenure criteria, ruralguy -- I don't mean to imply it doesn't happen elsewhere, but it's problematic enough at Compromise U that it's getting a reputation for it, and the SC came right out -- unbidden -- to say they were aware of it and "trying" to fix it.)

[ruralguy]

This seems highly unusual.....a TT, with no teaching in the first year? A school like that is probably pretty well off, so I am wondering what it is that drives people away. It seems unlikely that its an issue of teaching load or money. The issue you describe about making folks do things against the real needs of the dept or uni seems
unlcear to me. The analogy kind of makes sense, but I am not sure how that actually plays out. What is it REALLY that they have been asking these TT people DO that makes them go runaway screaming, or not get tenure in the end? I think if we knew the answer to that question we could be VERY specific about what you should do.

The default position, I guess, is that applying for things doesn't hurt, but from what I and others have said, you do want to be concerned about how your outlook and attitude affect things...but knowing WHY, more specifically, you have this outlook would be of great help in being more specific with advice.

Anyway, for now, you have a job, so, relax and do well. But I admit I might be missing a big component of all of this...

[polly_mer]

This seems highly unusual.....a TT, with no teaching in the first year?

I've heard this for places that really, really, really want to be research places, but don't yet have the facilities in place to attract the established people.  Therefore, the places hire people who look like they will be research workhorses and have them focus that first year on writing grant proposals to try to pop up the research profile.

However, I haven't heard of that working too well since the mentoring and support to write the proposals successfully isn't there and being smacked in the face with that teaching in the second year just about the time that the proposals need to be in the revise-and-resubmit for the new cycle is a killer.

[2lemmas]

Huh... reduced/eliminated teaching load in the first year is such a common point of negotiation for faculty in certain (grant driven?) fields at research-intensive Us that I wouldn't have even considered an offer w/o it, and every place I interviewed mentioned that that was their SoP as well.  These were R1s, though, not SLACs.

... being smacked in the face with that teaching in the second year just about the time that the proposals need to be in the revise-and-resubmit for the new cycle is a killer.

Yeah, I'm pretty much dreading that :(  I know some places let you choose/negotiate which year to take the teaching reduction (up to a point) for exactly that reason. Not Compromise U, though :P