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[josiebeth66]

So I've recently been applying to positions (personal reasons to move - nothing wrong with my university). I've only applied to a few but have not heard back. Certainly in this economy I would never expect to hear back from all but I have a position where there is just "one" in the whole University. I have 13 years of experience including things like leading my department in a ERP implementation, designing spin off departments under me, presenting at major academic summits, and so on. I have not been as active in professional organizations as I'd like to be (budget issues) but I have presented at several on various topics.

I have a consultant who used to work with me who I maintain contact with and she told me it is nearly impossible to shift in education as follows:

* 2 year to a 4 year
* 4 year to a 2 year
* Private to Public
* Non Profit to Public

Etc.

Is this true? Basically that would mean I could never have a chance at a public university as I have worked 18 years at a private non profit? I'm kind of shocked honestly - I thought (maybe I am too naive!) it would be job content and skillset.

All input is appreciated!

[totoro]

For academic positions it really doesn't matter whether someone worked at a private or public university. I don't imagine this is so different for administrative positions?

[josiebeth66]

That's what I thought since I'm familiar with the Academic side of the house.

She didn't say it was "impossible" just that it was highly unlikely I'd be able to get an interview or passed on to the search committee.

Now granted she is just one person - but she has amazing experience and has worked for some major R1's. It just never occured to me that I might get screened out due to the type of institution I worked at (well it did occur but I thought it might happen had I worked at a proprietary school).

I made it a point in the resume to highlight non-profit to be clear.

She feels my best shot is to apply for an Assistant or Associate position and hope for the best. Of course that would come with a $20K pay cut at a minimum as I've been in my current job for 5 years. This is incredibly disheartening!

[zharkov]

People move between categories all the time; the main factor is that they have relevant experience.  (This based on my experience on SCs, and seeing how much some people have moved.)  IMHO, the most difficult move is from out of the for-profit sector to public or private non-profit, since being an administrator in a for-profit is a lot more like being a manager in a corporation, not quite the same as being a traditional academic administrator.

[msparticularity]

People move between categories all the time; the main factor is that they have relevant experience.  (This based on my experience on SCs, and seeing how much some people have moved.)  IMHO, the most difficult move is from out of the for-profit sector to public or private non-profit, since being an administrator in a for-profit is a lot more like being a manager in a corporation, not quite the same as being a traditional academic administrator.

I have worked at two state universities and had the opportunity to observe a fair number of administrative hiring processes. I have literally never seen a dean who was not from another, relatively comparable, state uni even make the short list. Oddly enough, though, I have seen presidents move back and forth between large private schools and large public universities. Based upon the discussions of qualifications, what they had in common was their reputations as "rain-makers," which seemed to offset the administrative differences. 

[josiebeth66]

Ms. P - in your experience would this hold true below the VP level? I am speaking of positions like Director of Financial Aid, Registrar, Enrollment Manager/Director and so on. I'm not an academic though I report directly to the Provost.

Thanks

[anthroid]

Ms. P - in your experience would this hold true below the VP level? I am speaking of positions like Director of Financial Aid, Registrar, Enrollment Manager/Director and so on. I'm not an academic though I report directly to the Provost.

Thanks

Your consultant is incorrect.  Movement between private colleges and public universities is very common.  Two-year to four-year might not be quite as easy (or vice versa), since some very different issues animate CCs and undergrad SLACs or comprehensives.

I don't know what kind of line you're drawing between a private college and a private non-profit college.  To my way of thinking, they are the same.  The distinction is between private/public and for-profit.  It would be nearly impossible to move into the non-profit sector from a for-profit college, in my experience.  YMMV, however.

[zharkov]

I don't know what kind of line you're drawing between a private college and a private non-profit college.  To my way of thinking, they are the same.  The distinction is between private/public and for-profit.  It would be nearly impossible to move into the non-profit sector from a for-profit college, in my experience.  YMMV, however.

Anthroid, that seems like a quirky way to look at it to me, too, but I recall having a conversation with an admin from a state with a huge public sector, and the first "split" was public vs. private, then private subdivided into non-profit and for-profit.  So, different strokes, but I think the missions of most public and private non-profits are much closer than those of for-profits. 

To return to the original question, I've know deans and deanlets who moved between the public and non-profit sectors, and back, but I also suspect that in many public systems, hiring is done more from within (the larger system). 

[msparticularity]

Ms. P - in your experience would this hold true below the VP level? I am speaking of positions like Director of Financial Aid, Registrar, Enrollment Manager/Director and so on. I'm not an academic though I report directly to the Provost.

Thanks

Those are not positions where the hiring process involves faculty input, so I have no idea. The central concern of the hiring officer in this case would, I expect, be clear understanding of the differences among different types of institutions, so I would guess that a carefully-crafted application might spark interest. Still, as we note all the time around here, when there are reams of highly-qualified applicants who neatly fill the requirements (including similar institutional background), those from different kinds of settings can be overlooked. It happens at the faculty level too, and I saw it all the time when I worked in both the corporate and nonprofit sectors.

[anthroid]

I don't know what kind of line you're drawing between a private college and a private non-profit college.  To my way of thinking, they are the same.  The distinction is between private/public and for-profit.  It would be nearly impossible to move into the non-profit sector from a for-profit college, in my experience.  YMMV, however.

Anthroid, that seems like a quirky way to look at it to me, too, but I recall having a conversation with an admin from a state with a huge public sector, and the first "split" was public vs. private, then private subdivided into non-profit and for-profit.  So, different strokes, but I think the missions of most public and private non-profits are much closer than those of for-profits. 

To return to the original question, I've know deans and deanlets who moved between the public and non-profit sectors, and back, but I also suspect that in many public systems, hiring is done more from within (the larger system). 

Zharkov, that's very interesting.  I suspect the distinction might be more between R1 huge publics and everyone else, and then for-profits.  Moving back and forth between private comprehensives /SLACs and regional state universities is pretty common, in my experience.  As for internal hires, I've seen them in both privates and publics, so I don't think any general rule can be assumed.

[higheredguy]

I do believe there is great challenge presented when you are trying to move from a so-so school to a prestigious one. Outside of that, the roadblocks are almost non-existent. I have worked for a private non-profit university since 2003. I have had requests to apply as well as offers from public schools as well as for-profit. I would not consider the for-profit job as it becomes somewhat of a black-spot on my CV. Honestly, the reason I haven't changed is because I love it here. If you don't mind me asking, why do you desire a different location? The answer to this may very well be the reason you are unable to find placement.

[josiebeth66]

I do believe there is great challenge presented when you are trying to move from a so-so school to a prestigious one. Outside of that, the roadblocks are almost non-existent. I have worked for a private non-profit university since 2003. I have had requests to apply as well as offers from public schools as well as for-profit. I would not consider the for-profit job as it becomes somewhat of a black-spot on my CV. Honestly, the reason I haven't changed is because I love it here. If you don't mind me asking, why do you desire a different location? The answer to this may very well be the reason you are unable to find placement.

My ex and I have finalized the custody for our 2 kids - we are each taking one. My ex has a job opportunity in the Southeast (Atlanta) so he is taking my son there (I am on the other side of the country). I don't have any more support here (no family). I also have a relationship with a person on the East Coast. I don't want to be in the same city as my ex. but would like to be closer. So I would like to find something from Georgia up through DC area. I really want to live in the DC area as I love it. It is very expensive though hence the need for a good job.

I love what I do - and I 'd like to do the same job vs. go with something corporate. My skills might translate (presentations, People Soft, leading/managing people, etc). My university is large (28K FTE) but I would not say we are prestigious - but then again I'm not going for prestigious public schools. I would not apply, necessarily, to an R1 but I thought another fairly non traditional would be a good choice.

[mercy_my_own]

I appreciate why you shared your whole story here. I don't want to assume that you know that the search committee will totally glaze over and turn off if you tell it when they ask "Why do you want to relocate." Keep it simple and deflect it away from yourself -- i.e "I have family and friends in the area, and my research of your school shows me that I am a good fit for mission and values" etc.

My interest is the opposite. I've been in higher ed admin for 20+ years, always at a midsize public. I am curious to know what the differences are in the non-profit arena. I get it that its a profit motive but I'd like to hear from someone who has worked in both venues and can compare.

[zharkov]

My interest is the opposite. I've been in higher ed admin for 20+ years, always at a midsize public. I am curious to know what the differences are in the non-profit arena. I get it that its a profit motive but I'd like to hear from someone who has worked in both venues and can compare.

There is not a profit motive in non-profits, hence the category.  Obviously, they can't lose money year after year, but making a profit is not their purpose. 

The key difference between publics and non-profits would, IMHO, be found via the mission of each school, and how those missions are implemented.

[bayoucitybeancounter]

For positions in the office of registrar, financial aid and enrollment management the central issue is more likely to be the ERP you've worked with rather than whether you come from a public or private or four-year or two-year etc.  Banner schools like people who've worked with Banner, People Soft schools want people who know People Soft.