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[prof_smartypants]

Hi All,

A colleague and I are planning a trip with students to Ireland over a summer in the future. Basically, we'd each teach a 3 week course, but travel together. Together we'd cover:

Course 1
* Ecological Sustainability
* Farmland Protection & Growth Management
* Forestry & Environmental Protection

Course 2
* History of Human Settlement in Ireland
* Cultural and Historic Preservation
* Housing & Economic Development

Any suggestions for itineraries, places to visit, field trips, scheduling, travel help, etc. would be great. I'm struggling with an itinerary that would provide a good balance between the ecological/environmental sustainability factors highlighted in course 1 and the socio-economic sustainability factors highlighted in course 2.

Any and all suggestions welcome. We're in the early stages of planning and need all the help we can get.

[peppergal]

I have no suggestions.  I'm just posting to say I would really like to take this class!

[mouseman]

I suggest that I come along to teach the ecological sustainability segment...

On a more serious note - I need to check my stuff at home, but you should probably include sites that are important in the potato famines in any sustainability segment.  You could also compare aerial photographs from the past 100 years or so (however far back you can find them) and visit locations where land use has changed.  It may also be interesting to look at area which were farmland before the great potato famine of 1845 and was abandoned as the population plummeted - see what has gone through secondary succession and is now more "wild", versus areas under consistent use as farmland.  I'm not sure which locations are the best for these, but these are themes that I would think of incorporating into a specifically Irish trip.  As a general ecology theme, you could compare areas where there is extensive grazing by cattle and sheep to ungrazed areas.
An interesting ecological topic, I think, is exotic species, and in Ireland, I was fascinated by the palms.

Just some ideas that came to my mind as I was sitting here.  I'll think a bit more, if you'd like.

[prof_smartypants]

Thanks, guys. I'm really excited about it.

MM, the suggestion of sustainability relating to the potato famines is great!

Right now, we're looking at spending 2-3 days in Dublin, Kilkenny, Cork, Killarney, Dingle, and Doolin, flying into Dublin and out of Shannon. If anyone has specific thoughts about looking at specific sustainability issues in any of these towns, that would be awesome.

Usually, people can tag along for a pretty cheap rate. I'll let y'all know if/when this actually happens. I bet I can get discounted rates for guest lecturers!

[hegemony]

This seems like a lot of material for a three-week course.  Are students taking both courses or just one?  In my experience, students abroad are very distracted by the fact that everything's new and that they're far, far away from home.  (With people of the opposite sex.)  And the lower drinking age will also be of considerable interest to them. In my experience, which goes back seven years, you can't depend on their doing any homework at night -- they will be out pubbing or clubbing.  And during the day they'll have to be hand-fed their program of study, particularly out in the field, because the difference in everything will be very distracting to them.

If I were you, I'd arrange for the students to stay in a single location, probably Dublin but maybe another city, with a central classroom, and arrange field trips to the sites they need to see.  This will save an immense amount of fuss with moving luggage every night, finding the new rooms, etc.  I assume you have your university's foreign study office involved?  They no doubt have a workshop for trip leaders that will help you know what to do when unexpected things come up, e.g. when a student of mine went to a neighboring country for the weekend and broke her leg while she was there.

[wegie]

An interesting ecological topic, I think, is exotic species, and in Ireland, I was fascinated by the palms.

The North Atlantic Drift is your friend ;-)

And if you think they look out of place in Ireland, you should try Oban!

Dublin is worth a three week course on sustainability on its own . . . always assuming that in that three weeks you actually manage to get from the airport to the city centre.

The obvious modern thing to look at is the Bord na Mona, and Ireland's hideously unsustainable use of the peat lands.

[frogfactory]

I think there's a small dolphin population in Dingle Bay - they may have a small (Dingle is pretty but tiny) education centre there.

Another sustainability issue I'm sure you'll cover is digging the peat bogs for turf.  Co. Offaly (eg Tullamore) might be a good place to start looking for people studying that.

I recall there being an outdoor museum somewhere about the hedge schools, but I can't for the life of me remember where.  I'll try and dig that up, if you like.

[mended_drum]

Schedule a visit to to Newgrange (for part of Course 2), as well as the Cliffs of Moher (hope it's overcast or lightly raining to get the most spectacular views).  If you can stop for a day or so in Galway, that's always my students' favorite city in Ireland, and you can stop on Achill Island and visit the abandoned potato famine village there.  You might be interested in Connemara and the history of the green marble, as well. 

I've taken students to Ireland twice and am going again in January, so if you want to pm me, I can share my itinerary with you.

Oh, and when you're in Cork, have a Beamish.  Personally, I prefer it to Guinness.

[lindareid]

I've led spring travel studies to Ireland for the past seven years and I travel there frequently for pleasure and business.  Feel free to PM me.  I'd be happy to share my itinerary and knowledge.

Best,

Linda

[tuxedo_cat]

This seems like a lot of material for a three-week course.  Are students taking both courses or just one?  In my experience, students abroad are very distracted by the fact that everything's new and that they're far, far away from home.  (With people of the opposite sex.)  And the lower drinking age will also be of considerable interest to them. In my experience, which goes back seven years, you can't depend on their doing any homework at night -- they will be out pubbing or clubbing.  And during the day they'll have to be hand-fed their program of study, particularly out in the field, because the difference in everything will be very distracting to them.

If I were you, I'd arrange for the students to stay in a single location, probably Dublin but maybe another city, with a central classroom, and arrange field trips to the sites they need to see.  This will save an immense amount of fuss with moving luggage every night, finding the new rooms, etc.  I assume you have your university's foreign study office involved?  They no doubt have a workshop for trip leaders that will help you know what to do when unexpected things come up, e.g. when a student of mine went to a neighboring country for the weekend and broke her leg while she was there.

I would just like to heartily second everything hegemony said here, especially if you and your colleague have never taken students abroad before (perhaps I am wrong and you are both old hands at this?).  You are understandably very focused on the academic planning for this trip, but it may be all the non-academic stuff that will have you climbing the walls, both in the planning and once you get there.

Get all the assistance you possibly can from the study abroad / international studies office on your own campus.  If you can find an outfit in Ireland that arranges for student visits like the one you're planning, they will be worth every nickel (I would expect there to be quite a few).  Do not try to plan all of this on your own with the internet, email, and phone calls.  It can turn into an astonishing time-suck.

The courses you describe sound completely amazing -- I hope it all works out!

[prof_smartypants]

This seems like a lot of material for a three-week course.  Are students taking both courses or just one?  In my experience, students abroad are very distracted by the fact that everything's new and that they're far, far away from home.  (With people of the opposite sex.)  And the lower drinking age will also be of considerable interest to them. In my experience, which goes back seven years, you can't depend on their doing any homework at night -- they will be out pubbing or clubbing.  And during the day they'll have to be hand-fed their program of study, particularly out in the field, because the difference in everything will be very distracting to them.

If I were you, I'd arrange for the students to stay in a single location, probably Dublin but maybe another city, with a central classroom, and arrange field trips to the sites they need to see.  This will save an immense amount of fuss with moving luggage every night, finding the new rooms, etc.  I assume you have your university's foreign study office involved?  They no doubt have a workshop for trip leaders that will help you know what to do when unexpected things come up, e.g. when a student of mine went to a neighboring country for the weekend and broke her leg while she was there.

I would just like to heartily second everything hegemony said here, especially if you and your colleague have never taken students abroad before (perhaps I am wrong and you are both old hands at this?).  You are understandably very focused on the academic planning for this trip, but it may be all the non-academic stuff that will have you climbing the walls, both in the planning and once you get there.

Get all the assistance you possibly can from the study abroad / international studies office on your own campus.  If you can find an outfit in Ireland that arranges for student visits like the one you're planning, they will be worth every nickel (I would expect there to be quite a few).  Do not try to plan all of this on your own with the internet, email, and phone calls.  It can turn into an astonishing time-suck.

The courses you describe sound completely amazing -- I hope it all works out!

Thanks all. My colleague has taken students on a bunch of trips before. We have a pretty good study abraod office, but we also want to plan the main framework of the trip (i.e. go to cities A, B, C, go to sites x, y, c,)  mainly on our own - plus, our study abroad people wouldn't know anything about where to go for sustainability, etc. We're probably not doing this for two years, so that's why we're looking to get the itinerary settled (plus, that's the fun part).

Anyway, thanks so much for the suggestions so far. Keep em coming!

[spork]

There is too much shuffling about between hotels.

How are you going to handle the drunkenness/hangovers? Will your university give you the authority to put a kid on a plane and send him/her home as a result of unacceptable behavior?

[prof_smartypants]

There is too much shuffling about between hotels.

How are you going to handle the drunkenness/hangovers? Will your university give you the authority to put a kid on a plane and send him/her home as a result of unacceptable behavior?

Yes. We do this all the time. It's part of our curriculum. I agree there is too much shuffling around. I think arrive Dublin +2 leave Shannon is more reasonable. That said, please give more suggestions for sites!

[boggy]

For the forestry bit you could look into what these guys are doing  http://www.coillte.ie/  ....note they own 7% of Ireland's landcover as a semi-state company.  The fact that much of the ecological resources in Ireland are owned/managed by Semi-state companies could be a good angle for part of your course.  Similar are Bord na Mona.

You may also want to contact the Office of Public Works, who are responsible for the protection and conservation of Ireland's built heritage.

As for housing and economic development, I wouldn't plan anything as it will all have changed by the time you get here!  But definately make sure you visit some of the ghost estates.

Also, I'd cut down on the amount of moving you're doing around the country.  Not sure what there is to occupy you in Kilkenny for example.  And another thing, it might be great to do a compare and contrast angle to your tour by visiting similar sites in Northern Ireland.  Most people forget about the North when they plan visits, or only visit for tours related to the Troubles unfortunately.

If you need any help let me know.  I live in Dublin and run an international campus here.

[prof_smartypants]

For the forestry bit you could look into what these guys are doing  http://www.coillte.ie/  ....note they own 7% of Ireland's landcover as a semi-state company.  The fact that much of the ecological resources in Ireland are owned/managed by Semi-state companies could be a good angle for part of your course.  Similar are Bord na Mona.

You may also want to contact the Office of Public Works, who are responsible for the protection and conservation of Ireland's built heritage.

As for housing and economic development, I wouldn't plan anything as it will all have changed by the time you get here!  But definately make sure you visit some of the ghost estates.

Also, I'd cut down on the amount of moving you're doing around the country.  Not sure what there is to occupy you in Kilkenny for example.  And another thing, it might be great to do a compare and contrast angle to your tour by visiting similar sites in Northern Ireland.  Most people forget about the North when they plan visits, or only visit for tours related to the Troubles unfortunately.

If you need any help let me know.  I live in Dublin and run an international campus here.

Boggy, thanks! I'll pm you as well. We're 2 years out from the trip, so I'll definitely have more questions once the planning gets more solid.