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[studentintheair]

I hope that more Trine students are able to find this blog!! I have to speak in a public forum because my private emails are falling on deaf ears. I have one year left at Trine as an SPS student and I have loved every minute of the last 3 years as a mater of fact I have recommended students to the programs for all 3 years. My husband now attends as does one of my close friends. Today a friend placed on her facebook page that she was trying to choose a college, I realized that with all of the changes that have been made this past year I cannot in good faith recommend Trine to her, and then the realization hit me. I am not happy at Trine any longer, I know I will not pursue a Masters degree there as I had once thought I would. I have made some life long friends at Trine most of which will graduate this year. My close friends are also looking at other schools to pursue their masters degrees. I am not sure that it truly bothers Trine at this point. I think that enough research has shown that only 1 to 4 students prefer an Ebook-but we are now required to use one-with no option. I am 34 years old and although I am equipped to handle the concept of a book on my computer-I already am quite comfortable with the way I learn. I think that is part of catering to older students, is that WE ALREADY know who we are. We do not need to be told HOW we are going to learn-we know best what works for us, we are adults.
Beyond the emotional side of my argument there are factual issues at play here
1.Ebooks are NOT SAFE or TRINE is not prepared-I bought an Ebook and it will not work unless I am plugged into a wall-so we have 3 or 4 plug ins per room for 25 or so students-does anyone else see a potential problem here-can you say liability insurance-
2. Ebooks are NOT portable-Since I have to be plugged into the wall to use it, I cannot take it with me to study just anywhere-unless I can plus it in, no more starbucks study groups!!
2. Ebooks are NOT a whole lot cheaper-E-book that I bought were only roughly 20 dollars cheaper than the used version
3.No savings on shipping costs-We still pay shipping on the books-even though it is an envelope with a piece of paper in it
4. NO more student book exchanges-my husband and I exchange books with each other-and the students at the school are doing the exact same thing we just swap books with each other to keep costs down-no shipping, no book costs-now thats networking-as business students shouldn't we be ENCOURAGED to do this!! ebooks can not be exchanged amongst the students
5.No returns-if you drop a class for any reason you are stuck with the ebook-for me that was to the tune 118 buckaroos because I changed majors
6.Health Issues-there is an UNLIMITED amount of information out there on the health issues caused by staring at a computer screen, most adult learners use a computer all day-its the last hing they want or need to do at night-research has shown that staring at the blue of the computer screen makes it difficult to fall asleep because it mimics daylight-you can take that for what its worth
I however, believe that I have made my point quite emphatically, I dare say. I welcome any response from Trine University faculty regarding this situation that was less than thought out before implemented-or shoved down our throats depending on your perception of the events that have transpired!

[aandsdean]

I would have thought that being plugged into the wall wasn't safe under any conditions, e-book or no e-book.

BTW, welcome to the 21st century.

And, believe it or not, a big bunch of people with doctorates do actually know a lot more about learning than you do, adult learner or no.

[voxprincipalis]

1. Not a blog.

2. Really? This is *that* important? In the scheme of life, this seems like a tiny, tiny thing to be upset about.

VP

[spectacle]

The e-reader only policy at Trine is BRAND new.  Posting on the Chronicle forums is not going to do anything for you.  Here's what you should do:

1. Get together like-minded students - a lot of them. 

2. Find one who is a particularly strong writer (that wouldn't be you - no offense). 

3. Have them write up an emotion-free, fact-filled account of why the policy isn't working out.

4. Present it to your student government, governance, Deans of student affairs, whoever will listen.

If they think that a majority of students are unhappy with the policy, they'll change it.

[mystictechgal]

I must be missing something. My college offers actual textbooks in the bookstore, but we can purchase them elsewhere. Sometimes, I have chosen to purchase an e-book instead of the textbook. The e-books I have purchased allow me to do one of two things: download a single copy (so I can carry it around on my own laptop--no need to be "plugged into the wall") or, link to a "virtual" copy (so, if there's no WiFi, yeah, I guess I'd need to plug my computer into a hub). In both cases, I can print it if I choose. No. I can't return a downloaded copy, but I can return the "virtual" copy, as long as I haven't printed more than x% (forget the exact number, now). I get to keep the downloaded copy (if that's the option I chose) for electronic perpetuity--just like a textbook. The virtual version only gives me access for a year (maybe 18 months), but if I print it (rights to print 150%, wu WiFi on their campus, and most laptops these days come with that built in. Just how old is your computer that it requires hard-wired connection, only? And, either option was about 1/3 the cost of the textbook I replaced by choosing the ebook, instead.

This just doesn't sound like it should be that big of a deal. If it really is, and none of what I've said is, for some reason, an option, then do what Smithfieldmuse suggests. But, to echo Vox, really?

(BTW, I'm a non-trad undergrad, too. I'm more than 2 decades older than you are. I can handle using an ebook, just fine, thanks. So, please don't presume to speak for all of us "older" students.)

[peppergal]

What mystictechgal said is, as usual, spot on.

And not to hijack the thread, but the more I read your posts, MTG, the more I want to meet you in person, have a beer (or other beverage of your choosing) and just talk about life.

[mystictechgal]

Thanks! I'm always up for a meet-up. Location could pose a potential problem, but I don't know where you are. For all I know, you're right around the corner. Of course, you could be on the other side of the continent--or world.

And, don't know what happened to part of my post. The messed up part is supposed to say, ...If I print it (up to 150%)' which allows for printer screw-ups, I have the textbook. If TRINE is requiring (odd, rather than just requiring professors to allow the option) they must have WiFi on campus, and most laptops come with WiFi built in...

[mystictechgal]

Oh, sorry for the double, but I missed something in the OP that I feel the need to address:

 I think that is part of catering to older students, is that WE ALREADY know who we are. We do not need to be told HOW we are going to learn-we know best what works for us, we are adults.

It is your belief that your college--any college--should "cater" to you? I don't care how old or young you are. You're wrong. Just flat out wrong.

[theblondeassassin]

Oh, sorry for the double, but I missed something in the OP that I feel the need to address:

 I think that is part of catering to older students, is that WE ALREADY know who we are. We do not need to be told HOW we are going to learn-we know best what works for us, we are adults.

It is your belief that your college--any college--should "cater" to you? I don't care how old or young you are. You're wrong. Just flat out wrong.

Jeepers, MTG, haven't you heard of "catering colleges"?

Although I think even there the students do the catering, not the college.

Mmm, doughnuts.

[chaosbydesign]

I'm slightly confused as to why this is such a problem. Are the textbooks used at this university only available online? Is there anything actually stopping students from purchasing hard copies of the texts? Also, it seems that the obvious solution to the 'having to be plugged into a wall' issue would be to use an e-reader. Those don't have to be plugged in all the time and are a hell of a lot easier to carry around than a pile of textbooks.

[torshi]

Here is a Chronicle article about Trine's change to CafeScribe's MyScribe e-textbook reader, and here is the Trine site page about ordering textbooks.    CafeScribe is owned by Follett Corp., "a $2.3 billion, privately held company that provides products, services, and solutions to the educational marketplace."

It is not clear to me if a printed-book option is always available.  Only 30% of any book used on the MyScribe reader system can be copied or printed.  Once loaded, the book can be read without an internet connection, but the note function can not be accessed without a connection.  I can not find ADA information in the CafeScribe site.  There are complaints from students at other institutions about problems with the MyScribe system in addition to general complaints about not having the convenience of a conventional book option (e.g., here).

When I experimented with the Trine bookstore site today, required textbooks across a variety of courses were a mix of conventional books with e-textbook options.  In all cases I checked, the bookstore site provided limited information (e.g., only the CafeScribe ISBN was provided, no photo of book cover), making it hard for students to know if there were other options or to know if other forms of the book were the same book.

On my campus, electronic-only textbooks are being aggressively marketed to faculty by the campus bookstore.  I'd like to think that the motive is value to students, but that concern seems to not be on the radar.  It's about profit to publishers and to partner bookstores.

Potentially, e-books could be cheaper.  In reality, for my courses they are not cheaper than the net use cost to the student of a high-quality new or used textbook.  Every semester, for every course I teach, I compare quality and price options for textbooks.  An all-e-textbook has never been the cheapest option.  E-book versions of printed books are occasionally cheaper than used or rental book prices.  But when I survey my students, most recently a month ago, fewer than 10% want an e-book.  They want a printed book.  A commenter to the Chronicle article says that surveys on this topic generally find this result, but I have not looked for those.  Most, but not all, of my students have computers, but all do not have steady internet access.  Most simply prefer conventional books for their ease of use.  And yes, I do think they should have a say.

OP, threads here are archived and anyone doing a search on this topic may turn up this thread in the future.  I'm interested in the way love for technological innovation is combining with profit motive to produce this shift on my campus, and I'm concerned about reduced options for students.  I'm glad you posted; I hadn't heard of this system.  But to push back against a CafeScribe sales monopoly, you will need to organize students through a group, survey, petition, meetings with administrators, etc.  You will need a unified, clear message and evidence that yours is a shared view.  Look into the ADA issue, as that may be a weak spot, investigate the possibility that e-book-only may violate your state's legislation on university textbook accessibility, if there is such a law in your state, and research what happened when students at other institutions objected to this system.  

You may find that only the realistic prospect of lost tuition dollars will have an impact on book policy that offers students information about available options rather than pushing students to buy in one format from a single provider by limiting students' access to information.  The most effective action may be to share information about book ISBNs and to bypass both the bookstore and CafeScribe by buying books elsewhere.  If you are dealing with MyScribe-only books or testing systems that can be accessed only with the MyScribe application, then you'll have to organize.

[torshi]

(Sorry - mistake during editing)

[studentintheair]

WOW!
I am beginning to think that this was the wrong place to post as it is not a blog but rather a forum, and not about my complaints about Trine. However, I do appreciate your responses and the fact that you took the time to respond.
The Trine Policy is that we are required now to purchase ebooks, we are not to bring traditional books into the classroom, unless the ebook is simply not available. We have no choice in the matter. Those students who use financial aid to purchase books have only e-books to purchase. We are not "allowed" to purchase traditional books through our bookstore.  Traditional books are not allowed to be in the classroom.
The laptops are now mandatory and during attendance it is recorded rather we have brought it with us or not, because again it is mandatory, as are our e-books!
It is this "mandatory" part that has been upseting. I learn better with a traditional book, it works for me and I would like to keep my grade point average in tact!
The students started a petition last year which I was not a part of, but apparently it was ignored by the Dean.
I do not just speak for than myself in this matter. I do apologize however, for bothering you with my "petty" issues.
However, I would say that if you felt you were being told you had to, "learn" a certain way and had no choice in it, it might upset you. Maybe not, maybe you go with the flow, but I see that this just is not right, to take 500 plus students some of which do not feel comfortable with an electronic book and force it on them with no other options. The students and facility of the SPS's are asking for two things
1)the option of purchasing and using the tradition book
2)that professors be given the option to use laptops in the classroom,not forced to do so.
It is as simple as that.

Aandsdean-I have welcomed all information in regards to how this decision was made. I would love to see any statistical data in regards to why this is such a staunch decision. It seems as though I am not worthy to have such information. I have researched and looked myself, and have found some very interesting articles, but nothing that leads me to believe that ebooks should be the only option for students. Just because some one has a PHD they are not always, right. Understandably research and time have gone into this process, but the voices of the majority of the students is going unheard. PHD or not-listening to your students seems to be a rather understood point.
VOX-apparently to me it is important, important enough to look for a way to voice the opinions of the majority of students in my school in a public forum and risk a tongue lashing about how I am being petty about such a silly sentiment-in the scheme of life, it just seems wrong that someone could take away your options.
Spectacle-Thank you
Mystical Angel-first I must apologize you are right I do not assume and did not mean to imply that all non traditional students prefer traditional texts!
My ebook-cost about 20 less than the typical text book(when both were offered through the bookstore-which they are not now-its only ebook now)
I cannot return my digital copy at all
None of the students at my school have asked for anyone to cater to them, we simply asked to be given a choice on which style of learning we prefer.
Just as we do not asked to be catered to, we also do not ask to be dictated to either.
Professors have no choices either, they are being forced to use ebooks, even if they do not want to. They are required to use laptops in the classroom, even though many feel they are a distraction and do not like them.
We are not only losing students but facility is frustrated and intending on leaving as well.
I would like to reiterate here, that I am clearly not the only one at Trine that is not comfortable with being forced to follow these policies.
Torshi-Thank you for your research in to the ebooks at the bookstore at Trine, the main campus is allowed to use either traditional books or ebooks. But for SPS or non traditional, we have no choice, we must use ebooks.
I do understand that I came across to you as a whiny, trouble maker. I thought the same of the students who made a stink about this in the early spring, as I thought that the choice would continue to be there, I thought there would be no way that any school would dictate what the student was allowed to learn with or that this mandate would be handed down to professors as well. I was wrong. It does appear that possibly the main campus is planning to go all online with non traditional students and maybe would like to close the brick and mortar schools, if this is the case then these hard, fast rules make sense. I get no response to my inquires of why, except that it will save the student money, which is not much. Also that it is green and yes that it is part of entering the 21st century!!
Thank you again for your responses.