next »

[prof_smartypants]

Leave HR alone.

There were no violations here.  As MsP noted, the SC can ask any damn questions they want to.  They just can't discriminate against you on the basis of your answers.

And calling an applicant's home department is normal practice.

If you complain, you come off as a whacknut.  And academia is small, so stories get around.  

That's Prof_P, there, buddy.

Sheesh. If I was a MAN you sure would call me by my title! <interthreaduality>

tee_bee is right - start elaborating and turn this into a rollicking party anecdote.

[systeme_d_]

Leave HR alone.

There were no violations here.  As MsP noted, the SC can ask any damn questions they want to.  They just can't discriminate against you on the basis of your answers.

And calling an applicant's home department is normal practice.

If you complain, you come off as a whacknut.  And academia is small, so stories get around.  

That's Prof_P, there, buddy.

Sheesh. If I was a MAN you sure would call me by my title! <interthreaduality>
 

Ha!  I had "SP" in my head, and it morphed into MSP.  So sorry, ProfSP!

[the_honey_badger]

The only person involved in this doing anything *actionable* (and I don't mean legally, necessarily, but "trip behind the dept./HR woodshed" category) is the department secretary that you want to let slide because she's new.  She must be very new to a workplace of any type and badly trained at that! 

Its the hiring entity's perogative to get any information through any route possible.  BTW, the "local" element of that comment about on-campus interviews might have meant that being local meant that four could come in. You might have been the fourth and gained an interview yourself.

You want the satisfaction of making someone pay in some way for potentially inappropriate communications about you?  Its your secretary that has the problem.

[reener06]

So you have a job and you still want to pursue this? Leave it alone and count your lucky stars. I had an SC last year call me late at night. I had withdrawn from the search respectfully to deal with my Mom's illness. She proceeded to grill me about my mother's illness and other personal issues.  All inappropriate. I let it go. A second interview, a member of the department asked specific inappropriate questions. This stuff happens.  It never ever crossed my mind to contact HR and let them know. I instead felt like I deflected, in the first case, a bad job.

I have worked in the private sector and been asked inappropriate questions as well. I've been told not to get pregnant, as the company would let me go. I did file an EEOC complaint against a supervisor who subjected me to graphic stories that were highly inappropriate. The supervisor hired a lawyer to fight the complaint, made up a lot of lies about me, and EEOC dismissed the complaint. I feel lucky I am came away unscathed.

And you never know when you will see these people again. I have repeatedly run into people from these past companies while in academia. I will run into the people I interviewed with again. Never say never. Again, feel really lucky you got a job and let it go. The committee is aware of what is inappropriate and HR would or could do very little if you file a complaint.

[giacomo]

Thanks all.

Maybe I'll just put in a call to their HR department without committing anything in writing.

FTR, I was offered another job and accepted. Again, gene pools are far, far, far apart. They'd never even heard of the conferences I attend, btw. I've read their CVs online. they don't attend conferences and none has published (with one exception). College gets reviews like "I'm embarrassed to go here." etc.

I believe that the responses that you have received have been unanimous which is something that rarely happens on these forums. There is no reason to call the school's HR department and it can be detrimental to you to do so. The reason for you not to call is because you are making a mountain out of a molehill. I suggest that you listen to the advice.

[tuxedo_cat]

Well, just for the sake of variety, I'll say:  DO IT.  GO for it, westcoastgirl.  You seem determined to destroy your own academic career, and you may as well go ahead and get that over sooner rather than later so that you can move on to something else.

[westcoastgirl]

I'm just wondering, with no snark intended. so, despite the fact that SC chair asked a verboten question--as stated in their online Guide to Interviewing Handbook, she didn't do anything wrong.

Odd. That's fine though. I'll weigh your collective advice accordingly.

[ellaminnow]

I'm just wondering, with no snark intended. so, despite the fact that SC chair asked a verboten question--as stated in their online Guide to Interviewing Handbook, she didn't do anything wrong. Odd. That's fine though. I'll weigh your collective advice accordingly.

She may very well have done something "wrong" according to the institutional policies.  That's not what is of concern here.  It is not your role to address this with HR - let the SC do this. 

[voxprincipalis]

I'm just wondering, with no snark intended. so, despite the fact that SC chair asked a verboten question--as stated in their online Guide to Interviewing Handbook, she didn't do anything wrong.

Odd. That's fine though. I'll weigh your collective advice accordingly.

In other words, "I'm doing what I want anyway because despite the collective agreement of people from many different ranks and disciplines telling you this is a bad idea, I need to show these people something."

The other day at the grocery store, I parked over the line in the parking spot and my car hung over a little bit into the empty space next to me, despite the fact that the line was plainly evident. There it was, and there I was over it! I will send you the address of the store and you can write them a letter if you wish. Or you could just call them. That's OK too.

VP

[glowdart]

I'm just wondering, with no snark intended. so, despite the fact that SC chair asked a verboten question--as stated in their online Guide to Interviewing Handbook, she didn't do anything wrong.

Odd. That's fine though. I'll weigh your collective advice accordingly.

It is not a question of right or wrong.  It is a question of how you react to this situation. 

[tuxedo_cat]

In all seriousness, OP, I'm not sure that you are aware of the fact that the focus of this thread is no longer the offending SC chair, but you.  

If you persist in having the following qualities. . . .

* having a thin skin  
* seeking out drama and conflict where there is no need for such
* ability to distract oneself from meeting major academic goals
* blithely ignoring the advice of both tenured faculty and administrators about the self-destructive pointlessness of pursuing this apparent great offense
* self-righteousness and delusions of grandeur about the idea that you personally must right an appalling institutional wrong

. . . you stand very little chance of surviving in this profession.

[navelgazer]

What puzzles me is the complaint about calling the adviser on the phone. What's wrong with that? We certainly don't get to control what means of communication other people use to communicate among themselves. Lots of people prefer to do business on the phone for a whole host of reasons. [Phone calls always seem like a great idea to me, since additional positive information can come up in a back and forth.]

You could certainly register a complaint against your admin assistant for violating FERPA, I guess.

[prytania3]

Word...

[wet_blanket]

I'm sure everyone is correct that it can't benefit and in fact can only harm the OP to pursue this.  But, if there is a policy within the institution that Question A shouldn't be asked and it is in fact formalized within the handbook, I can imagine HR and admin wanting to know if this policy is being violated.

Obviously, it's a bad idea for rejected candidates to be informants.  And other members of the SC are probably not going to be inclined to say anything.  So I guess my general question is, how are HR policies in this area enforced and compliance monitored?

[seniorscholar]

And calling an applicant's home department is normal practice.

Over the past five years, during which I've had 9 PhD's on the market, I've had 8 phone calls unannounced directly to me (although some of them probably asked the university switchboard for my number) to ask when the dissertation will be finished, what sort of person the candidate is, or (from HR drones at community colleges) a list of completely immaterial questions required in their rule book: does she dress appropriately? does he come to work on time? does he treat others with consideration? does she have appropriate personal hygiene?

None of these are illegal or even inappropriate, though sometimes they are stupid, questions. They (and the routine of calling a doctoral student's supervisor before making an offer) are absolutely standard.

My last such phone call was Thursday. The student called me Friday to say s/he had an offer and when could we talk about negotiating. This is so common that I rejoice to get the calls, and can hardly keep from letting the student know before the department chair has had a chance to make the offer.