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[westcoastgirl]

Hi all.

thanks for looking!

I've sat on this for a month. I wanted to ensure that any actions I might possibly take would not be the result of sour grapes after hearing that I didn't get the job at a certain place I was shortlisted. It's been 2 months and some of my colleagues are urging me to take action. Here's the backstory:

The chair of the search committee acted very unprofessionally during the Jan job search, prelim call and shortlist interview. I wanted to get a second opinion here. Before I take action, I simply want to see if what she did was just rude and stupid or really a violation. And, I need help wording my letter.

I had a prelim phone interview on Jan 26 at a small, liberal arts college. It's mostly on par with a community college--open admission, etc. I wasn't required to give a job talk.

In the prelim phone call, the interviewer (who was chairing the committee and very hostile to me to the point where I hung up the phone thinking, wait? why are they calling me, then? at one point, when I mentioned my dissertation, she said, "yes, I know I did a dissertation at [fill in the blank]." It was all pretty stunning. I was shocked when they called back and shortlisted me). Anyway, in this prelim call, they mentioned they would be contacting my adviser, whose name and email are listed on my CV, to verify where I was at in my dissertation. I'm ABD and scheduled to defend in the fall.  I gave them verbal permission to email her. Usually, it's standard to email, ask for references and then ask permission to call.

Instead of emailing her, SC chair called the assistant to the administrative assistant in the main office of my department to obtain the adviser's extension (why they couldn't have simply emailed my adviser or looked on the website, God knows). In the meantime, the search chair grilled the admin asst. about how long I'd been in the program, what kind of person/student I was, etc. SC chair also said "She's been there a long time, huh?" The admin assistant is brand new. She's a really sweet girl, but she was caught off guard by all of this since SCs use interfolio or email/call the referees directly.

On Jan. 28th, I was quite surprised when I arrived at my department social hour and the admin asst. said (in front of others), "this woman [SC chair} from x university called about you several times." She proceeded to relay certain info. in front of my colleagues. I was a bit embarrassed as I don't share everywhere I apply with my colleagues. At the end of the day, it wasn't a big thing. I don't really blame the secretary since she's brand new and thought she was doing me a courtesy.

I'd probably think nothing of it, except that there was some definite fishing at the interview itself for personal info (by the same person). I will keep this personal info under the radar for now in the interest of protecting my identity, but it was something listed in their HR handbook as something NOT TO ASK. And when I've googled the question, I've found that it is a formal violation in some states.

Anyway, just wanted opinions on this.

violation or just rude? I read extensively in the handbook that they have to be very careful and have full permission to contact references. The admin. assistant is not listed on my CV as a  reference, of course.

In terms of the second issue, she was in clear violation (the exact question she used appears in their handbook as one not to use).

the third thing was something that falls under the banner of tackiness, but not a violation. should I bring this up in the letter? Basically, one of the committee members said on the side, "Yeah, we are interviewing four of you for the position. You are basically our freebie because your local." I know it was said in all sincerity and it wasn't meant to sting. But it really angered me (admittedly moreso after not being offered the job). Maybe they were just frittering away time with me, but all of this came at a huge cost to me. My husband changed his flight so that he could take care of our kid the next day at a cost of 300 bucks. He's a professor in another state. Secondly, they called on a friday and asked me to come in on a Monday, so I had little time to prepare (they even said they knew the time frame was very short). I also had to cancel classes.

so, I've decided to complain. I'm not filing any sort of suit, whatsoever. I'd simply like to lodge my complaint with their HR and out this person. So how do I word it:

Dear HR person, I'd like to bring to your attention a ?violation? of EEOC laws.
______________________________________________________________

Here's where I  have a question--I don't want to word things too strongly as I don't know if it was a total violation. I also don't want to reassure them that this is "no big deal for me" and that I'm not doing anything else. I'd like to leave that question open. I know that in their handbook it said not to ask me the question asked at the interview, BUT I don't want to shoot myself in the foot by claiming violations where there were none. She clearing violated their in-house policies. So how should that be worded?

Secondly, she did goof with drilling the administrative assistant. once again, not sure this violates any sort of law or policy. this definitely violates their in-house policy though.

I'm trying to tread lightly here. I believe that SC chair acted very inappropriately, cut corners, and tried to needle people for info about me (on another note, I think she felt a bit intimidated by me. I know it's not very PC to say it, but I think there was some reverse elitism going on. I felt this from the get-go. The president of the university even mentioned to me that they wanted to recruit people from schools like mine (our school is second in my field)." the provost straight out warned me that i shouldn't conceive of the place as a stepping stone. And I don't think these people should be able to get away with this again.

FTR, I had no intention of doing any of that and I'm not a snob about my degree. At the end of the day, I'm willing to admit, perhaps it boiled down to me not being a good fit. That's perfectly fine.

But I do need some guidance as I write this letter tonight. It's long overdue and I have some conferences and speeches to write. If I don't get it off now, I never will. And I'm committed to doing it.

[ideagirl]

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.

That's my advice.

Do not write that letter (well, write it if it helps you process what happened, but don't send it). At least, not without first talking to an employment discrimination lawyer.

What do you hope to gain from sending this letter??

[systeme_d_]

Write your conference presentations instead.

No good can come of this.

[voxprincipalis]

Do nothing. There is nothing to do. Write nothing. Send nothing. Nothing is to be gained, but potentially a career could be lost (yours). I think you are making a mountain out of something that could not even aspire to be a molehill. You do not want to go down this road. Personal satisfaction for a perceived slight is not a reason to scuttle your career.

VP

[charlesr]

If it will make you feel better, write the letter.  Then tear it up.  

The search chair sounds like a tactless jerk.  I am not sure that there are any legal violations here, other than your dept assistant violating FERPA by disclosing the information about you.  

Every search committee wants to find out personal information.  That's why we google candidates, check references, and ask mutual acquaintances.  The candidate's fit within the department and school can be just as important as credentials.  

Let it go.

[prof_smartypants]

You didn't get a job at a school with some nutjobs. They asked an inappropriate question (are you married? do you have kids?). You didn't get the job (would you want it?)

Sounds like you dodged a bullet. What on earth do you wish to gain from this? Satisfaction - principle - retribution? Please. It's a small world, and you're ABD. Finish your dissertation and move on.

On preview, chenar's ritual burning sounds like the right approach.

[westcoastgirl]

I'm wondering what could happen to me by reporting my experiences. the other committee members heard her ask the question and they raised their eyebrows. And she called my department fishing for info.

There would be no chance at ever crossing paths again. We don't attend any of the same conferences or anything like this. It was for an open area position in a humanities department. I'm a specialist in a specific type of humanities.

What do I hope to gain? well, I hope to alert human resources that someone in their university is flippantly disregarding protocol. It made for an awkward moment in the interview (I didn't know how to answer without being rude, so I did) and secondly, it made for a very awkward moment when my private business was announced in front of colleagues. Yes, the admin asst. was wrong for doing that, but a SC member has never drilled staff for information. I thought that very odd even before I went out to the school.

Can't I simply lodge a "complaint" to their HR. It doesn't have to be dripping with "I'm gonna sue you." That isn't even my intent.

[prof_smartypants]

She can ask whatever inappropriate questions she wants. The SC just can't use your answers to not hire you.

And SCs can call anyone they like. They don't need your permission.

Seriously. You need to drop this. Now.

[larryc]

I am not seeing anything illegal or unethical here. You applied for a job, so they tried to find out more information about you. You do not get to control who or what information the search committee has access to. The names of your referees are a starting point, not a definitive list of whom may be contacted. You seem to have a lot of rules about how the job search should be conducted that are your rules alone.

What was the one question that you felt was a violation of their own procedures?

[westcoastgirl]

Thanks all.

Maybe I'll just put in a call to their HR department without committing anything in writing.

FTR, I was offered another job and accepted. Again, gene pools are far, far, far apart. They'd never even heard of the conferences I attend, btw. I've read their CVs online. they don't attend conferences and none has published (with one exception). College gets reviews like "I'm embarrassed to go here." etc.

[glowdart]

If it will make you feel better, write the letter.  Then tear it up.  

And if that doesn't feel cathartic enough, then print 80 copies and make yourself a fire so that you can make some s'mores.  

What do I hope to gain? well, I hope to alert human resources that someone in their university is flippantly disregarding protocol.

They likely already know that this person is uncouth on good days.  Remember, the other SC members raised their eyes.  They heard it.  They know it.  

[torshi]

Do you really mean "EEOC violation," discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, age, disability or genetic information?  

If you don't mean it, do you understand how problematic it is to use that term if what you really mean is "rude," "unprofessional," or "disagreeable"?  

But you seem to feel justified and safe because they are beneath you anyway, so go right ahead.

[systeme_d_]

Leave HR alone.

There were no violations here.  As MsP noted, the SC can ask any damn questions they want to.  They just can't discriminate against you on the basis of your answers.

And calling an applicant's home department is normal practice.

If you complain, you come off as a whacknut.  And academia is small, so stories get around.  

[charlesr]

the other committee members heard her ask the question and they raised their eyebrows.

Then let them deal with it.

The risk to you is that you develop the stigma as a troublemaker whether deserved or not.  You're in the humanities.  The competition is bad enough as it is.  Why make it worse?

Academia is a very small place.

[tee_bee]

Thanks all.

Maybe I'll just put in a call to their HR department without committing anything in writing.

FTR, I was offered another job and accepted. Again, gene pools are far, far, far apart. They'd never even heard of the conferences I attend, btw. I've read their CVs online. they don't attend conferences and none has published (with one exception). College gets reviews like "I'm embarrassed to go here." etc.

No, no, no, ad infinitum. Don't call the other school's HR department. They won't see the point--if there's a point to be seen. No. It's a waste of your time, you won't get any "satisfaction," and you already have a job. This is a great cocktail hour story. Go read Elisabeth Bumiller's The Civil Rights Society, and see how pressing these sorts of claims often corners the claims-makers into the role of "victim." At worst, you're just assuming the role of victim--albeit a victim of bad taste that's not actionable (using the real meaning of this word) under any known employment law.

Sounds like you want to score points here. It's not worth it. Burn that letter instead, per glowdart's sage advice.