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[zyuranger]

So, I'm a long time lurker, first-time poster, and I have a bit of a problem.

I attend a R1 and am a member of a 20+ lab group with various assistant/associate professors and one full professor (my adviser).  Most of the grad students are students who went straight thru to a PhD or Masters program from a bachelor's and are very overachieving.  I worked as a public servant for some years in the "real world" and obtained my masters while holding down a very time-consuming job. I decided to go back to school for a PhD about two years ago, so I'm about 5 years older than everyone else. 

I initially didn't think the age gap (it's only 5 years) would be that much of a problem, but I'm noticing how my maturity doesn't gel well with the personalities/working styles of this overachiever bunch.  Sure, I used to be an overachiever in college; however, you learn how to rein in that perfectionism when you realize it's not worth it. 

Well, long story short, I see these "young" students are constantly working some 40-50 hour weeks bending over backwards for our adviser.  They feel they need to ask permission to leave over an academic break (when it's clearly stipulated in our contract that it's not necessary.)  They work their tails off to meet his deadlines (when he clearly doesn't work as hard to meet our deadlines...but they don't call him out on it...) They seem to think he is god and can do no harm. 

Also, when I meet other lab students outside of the lab, it's crazy formal.  They don't drink; they talk about the work they're doing for the prof.  Frankly, it's quite BORING, and I'm beginning to dread being around them.  It's like they're never off, like they are always expecting some academic person to sneak out from the corners of the bar and reprimand them for not working--my god!

One student stays in the lab until 5 am working...WTH?  It seems this is their life....research, work, research, work... :(

How do you guys deal with overachieving, workaholic grad students?  I can't just avoid them because I, unfortunately, share an office with them.  I've tried reaching out and forming social clubs/mixers; however, those mainly turn into a work venting session (ugh!!!!). 

[dellaroux]

Go dancing.

Seriously.

Find any kind of dance--social, folk, ballroom, ethnic, whatever--and get out of that space on your off hours.

Of course, you may meet some of them there, too, but at least you can just swing them once more around the room, or ask about the latest step shown in the class or something.

But go dancing.

Seriously.

[larryc]

I'm sorry, but it sounds like you need to step up your game. Nevermind the letter of your contract, this is grad school and you have to spend most of your waking hours working.

[chaosbydesign]

If it's a social life you're looking for, try getting involved in something unrelated to school which interests you and will allow you to meet the sort of people you will enjoy hanging out with. (Personally, I am happiest when hanging out with other academic types, but not necessarily those in my own field -- I understand your need to get away from the serious work talk every so often.)

However, working a 40-50 hour week in grad school does not say 'workaholic' to me. Those seem like normal (if not low) working hours, especially if you're doing lab work.

[merce]

I thought "overachieving, workaholic" was pretty much within the definition of graduate student.

They sound normal.

And though it says you are free to leave for breaks don't believe your profs will care.  They are used to "normal," "overachieving, workaholic grad students."


But dancing is always good advice too.

[corvus_caurinus]

As suggested, do your socializing outside of your graduate cohort.

But more importantly, are you outproducing these "workaholic" students? If not, be very careful about expressing the sentiment you've expressed here. 40-50 hours a week is not excessive for someone who is investing in their own education. Any entrepreneur in any area puts in those kinds of hours if not more. Graduate students are fundamentally entrepreneurs investing in their own professional development in hopes of ending up with marketable product --namely, themselves -- that will provide them with a secure, stimulating, and even modestly prestigious job on down the road.

[scampster]

I'm sorry, but it sounds like you need to step up your game. Nevermind the letter of your contract, this is grad school and you have to spend most of your waking hours working.

Not necessarily. I think fresh out of undergrad grad students are probably the most likely to "work" long hours because they haven't figured out time management yet. I took time off before grad school and older grad students in my group commented on my work habits - I worked more like them from the start (basically a work day with some stuff at nights and weekends), rather than like an undergrad.

That being said, OP look to the grad students who are farthest along in the program, not the people who started with you or even a year ahead of you. It is easy to tell which ones are the productive ones. If they are all working insane hours then you are probably in that kind of group that requires it.

[systeme_d_]

however, you learn how to rein in that perfectionism when you realize it's not worth it. 

To them, it's worth it.  They want jobs after they finish their degrees, and as they see it, they're making themselves marketable.  And they're right.

[sciencephd]

It sounds as though you have chosen the wrong lab.  Find out where your kind are working, or not.

[anon99]

The suggestion of going out dancing or to a club is good.  It will be too loud to talk.

Working 40-50 hours a week is not unusual.  And to do well, you will need to work late nights some times.  Yes time management differs between people, but are you meeting the milestones set out by your advisor?  If you want to succeed in academia, you will be working more than 50 hours a week especially at first.

You work for your advisor and while your contract may say you are entitled to a certain amount of time off, it is professional to talk with your advisor about this and ask them.  When you worked for the government, didn't you have your time off approved?  Your advisor is your boss and if they set (reasonable) deadlines, then you should be meeting them.  Having had students who don't stick to deadlines that they set; doesn't bode well.  Your advisor knows what you need to do to succeed and is trying to make sure you are doing that.

[voxprincipalis]

So, I'm a long time lurker, first-time poster, and I have a bit of a problem.

If you are really a long-time lurker, then surely you have seen the myriad threads describing the number of hours it is necessary to work in grad school in order to succeed. So either you are not a long-time lurker or ...

VP

[juillet]

Are you in your first or second year?  I came straight from undergraduate like your colleagues, and having had no 9-5 job prior to graduate school, I started off working like an undergrad...and started off "crazy formal" as you put it.  It was originally "fun" to talk about work during non-work time and you kind of *are* expecting a professor to sneak out from the corner of the bar and reprimand you.  I remember that I used to have constant guilt following me when I wasn't working, because I hadn't yet developed the time management skills to get through the workload without feeling like I was working night and day (and add to that the fact that you have to take 4 classes a semester in my program to have a prayer of finishing in ~5 years).  It *felt* like college, superficially, and yet I was like, "Why am I sinking?"

If you are 1-2 years in, give it some time.  We quickly burn out on that kind of lifestyle, lol.  Now I can't stand talking about work when I'm not at work and although I don't structure my time like a 9-5, I do have more clearly demarcated "work time" and "play time" instead of "I'll do this whenever I get around to it."  You might also try hanging out with some of the more advanced graduate students, and perhaps doing some social events in the city you live in to escape your labmates.  There are some people from my cohort I hang out with socially, but my most recent concentration has been creating/maintaining a group of friends who aren't academics and don't understand what I do because...sometimes it's nice not to talk about school. (Although the downside is that they also don't really understand academic commitments.)

However...it sounds like your colleagues are doing the necessary things to get ahead.  It is not at all uncommon for graduate students who want to publish and earn good reputations in their fields to work 40-50 hours a week (or more).  Just because they SAY it's a 20-hour a week commitment doesn't mean it actually is.  Twenty hours a week isn't nearly enough to do everything you need to do.

And while I don't ask for *permission* per se to leave over the break anymore, I do check in with my advisor and see what I can take home.  I could see why some doctoral students would.  A lot of professors forget about academic holidays because they don't take them, and some ignore them completely.  I'm nominally on spring break right now, but I had a lab meeting yesterday, a phone meeting today and I have a cluster meeting tomorrow.  And of course they work their tails off to meet their deadlines...there is a clear power imbalance and until you are a professor, you kind of have to deal with it.  How can I call out my advisor on his failure to meet my deadlines? 

[egilson]

So, I'm a long time lurker, first-time poster, and I have a bit of a problem.

If you are really a long-time lurker, then surely you have seen the myriad threads describing the number of hours it is necessary to work in grad school in order to succeed. So either you are not a long-time lurker or ...

Sock It to Me, Baby! (Not Mitch Ryder, by the way, but some very cool rocksteady instead.)

[amewa_silk]

Maybe you are of Gen X?
I am reminded of this book.  Underachievers need not click.

[offthemarket]

It sounds like this field, or at least this lab, wasn't meant for you.  Of course the students work harder than the adviser.  And of course the grad students work their butt off.  In the sciences, there is no such thing as an overachieving grad student.  There are only the underachieving ones.  I think they might have less life experience than you, but they seem to know the score.

If only they knew how to have fun, but that's a separate issue.