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[octoprof]

I'm open to suggestions.

I gave my first exam in my online upper level course. The average was about right (same as the live version). About 16% As, which was nice. However, 16% earned Fs and 19% earned Ds. Students must earn a C in this course to graduate in the major, of course.

So, when I sent out the general results to the class, I suggested that students who earned less than 60% should make an appointment with me to discuss progress and improvement strategies. Exactly one student has done this and I met with her today.  We had a lengthy discussion about her strategy for improving. In the course of this discussion, she revealed that she hadn't done all the homework (yes, this does count for points), nor had she watched all the lectures and demonstration videos. Hello?  She said she read through the slides (regular PPT slides I provide so they can print them and take notes along with the lecture if they like) but didn't watch the lecture videos or demonstrations.

I think, after our discussion, she is going to alter her study strategy to include those items, plus some practice problems.  I made sure she knew how to access everything (she did) and we discussed quiz (not test) taking strategies, which she already understood, and so forth. So, she wasn't ignoring those items because she didn't know how to access them, at least.

However, this conversation makes me wonder about the others who are not performing well and what all they are not doing. Do they think those lecture videos and problem demonstrations (where I demonstrate using OneNote or Excel how to apply a particular method in solving a problem) are there just to take up space?

Any suggestions on how I get through to the other under-performers?  FYI, my students are all locals.

[changinggears]

Posting 'cause I'd like to hear the suggestions offered.

You may have already done this, but I'm wondering if there's a really good tipsheet somewhere for DL students.  I'm sure one of the forumites has put together a good one and would be willing to share.  (Of course, this would entail your students actuallly reading the tip sheet, so that may put a kink in things).  Perhaps they are really just clueless about the importance of doing these things and, like the student who met with you, need some simple, straightforward guidance on what they should do in order to do well in an online course. 

[larryc]

Asking online students to come to my office has never worked for me--even when they live in the dorms. I'd type up the conversation you had and post it as an announcement.

A frequent tactic I have used after the first test is to create a new discussion board titled "What Works for You?" I ask he students who earned A's and B's to describe how they study for the benefit of the rest of the class. Some will offer excellent tips which have all the more credibility because they didn't come from you.

[jon_margerumleys]

As often happens, I concur with LarryC--well put.

The poster's conversation with the student reminded me of something I do.  At the close of the first week of classes, I look at the server logs to see who has not viewed material that they were supposed to view.  I then drop a gentle note to those who haven't.  Often, they're suprised to learn that I can even get access to that information (though it says in the syllabus that I can and do).  I see it as the electronic equivalent to taking attendance.  It helps a little with getting students to at least _look_ at the material.

Jon

[octoprof]

You may have already done this, but I'm wondering if there's a really good tipsheet somewhere for DL students.  I'm sure one of the forumites has put together a good one and would be willing to share.  (Of course, this would entail your students actuallly reading the tip sheet, so that may put a kink in things).  Perhaps they are really just clueless about the importance of doing these things and, like the student who met with you, need some simple, straightforward guidance on what they should do in order to do well in an online course. 

I have put up a tip sheet and a video about such things, at the beginning of the semester. I don't think they read/listen/look.

Asking online students to come to my office has never worked for me--even when they live in the dorms. I'd type up the conversation you had and post it as an announcement.

A frequent tactic I have used after the first test is to create a new discussion board titled "What Works for You?" I ask he students who earned A's and B's to describe how they study for the benefit of the rest of the class. Some will offer excellent tips which have all the more credibility because they didn't come from you.

I will post the conversation. Of course, the students who didn't come see me are probably going to ignore that announcement, too.

I will add something to the discussion board. Excellent idea.

[changinggears]

Asking online students to come to my office has never worked for me--even when they live in the dorms. I'd type up the conversation you had and post it as an announcement.

A frequent tactic I have used after the first test is to create a new discussion board titled "What Works for You?" I ask he students who earned A's and B's to describe how they study for the benefit of the rest of the class. Some will offer excellent tips which have all the more credibility because they didn't come from you.

Brilliant!  As usual, larryc offers excellent advice.

[dept_geek]

A frequent tactic I have used after the first test is to create a new discussion board titled "What Works for You?" I ask he students who earned A's and B's to describe how they study for the benefit of the rest of the class. Some will offer excellent tips which have all the more credibility because they didn't come from you.

I teach a two-course sequence that (a) is hard and (b) students are afraid of (the course material and not so much me, altho I think that is part of it. hahahahahahahaha!)

One of the things that works really well is that I have the part II students offer advice to the students just starting part I.  I give extra credit for the effort. I tell them it can be in any format.. prose, lists, haiku, ... (haven't gotten interpretive dance or videos yet) This gives me great material to post! And like LarryC says, it doesn't come from me so it seems to work better.

After that.. about 35% of my students don't read, don't plan, just are trying to check a box that says they completed the course.  For a very long time, I let this get to me. After spending time here and talking to my mentors, I no longer do. Students have the right to fail your course. It is quite cathartic to no longer worry about someone else's problems. Give them all the material they will need to succeed, but don't worry if they don't take advantage. You aren't withholding anything, they just don't want to make the effort. 

[larryc]

After that.. about 35% of my students don't read, don't plan, just are trying to check a box that says they completed the course.  For a very long time, I let this get to me. After spending time here and talking to my mentors, I no longer do. Students have the right to fail your course. It is quite cathartic to no longer worry about someone else's problems. Give them all the material they will need to succeed, but don't worry if they don't take advantage. You aren't withholding anything, they just don't want to make the effort. 

Yeah, I also got to this point. Students take online courses with unrealistic expectations about "finding the time" without having to alter their schedules otherwise. "I can work 50 hours a week and keep up with my medieval reenactments and raise four kids and take 12 credit hours because the courses are online!" Only one thing will convince them that this is not possible, and that one thing is failure.

I also noticed that a pretty good percentage of my failing students showed up on my rosters again a few semesters later and passed the course. So don't feel bad about it.

[coastcat]

A frequent tactic I have used after the first test is to create a new discussion board titled "What Works for You?" I ask he students who earned A's and B's to describe how they study for the benefit of the rest of the class. Some will offer excellent tips which have all the more credibility because they didn't come from you.

All of my online grad classes have ended with a discussion of what strategies worked best for studying, posting on the CMS, working collaboratively, searching for journal articles, and so forth. All of my classes began with "here's a compilation of tips from last semester's students."

By this point, I've developed my own techniques but will still look over the tip sheet. Oh, but that first semester... I clung to the tip sheets like a cat on the curtain.

[octoprof]

For what it's worth, 25% of my online students (upper level required for the major course) did not turn in assignment 4. I just don't get it. It was an easy assignment!

[dellaroux]

Not meaning at all to sound hard-hearted, or to encourage a caring instructor not to care, but....unless you need to show this course is somehow different from all other courses, in that no students (or very few) fail, I'm missing the reason it's your responsibility to make them do the work that's there to be done.

If there is a possible (inaccurate/impractical) perception among your admins (or chez toi?) that online options will lead to greater "student success" or something, I'd be worried, of course, because once again technology will be showing its non-magic clay feet, and you might be in the position of being the messenger who brings the reality-check/bad news...but otherwise, I don't know that you can really be too concerned with it.

I usually figure that as many As as Fs, and a few more Bs and Ds, with the average Cs in the middle, means the curve is working.  I might bump a few things up given extra credit options built into several assignments (and an EC option I allow myself when grading if I see a point in an essay that particularly shows an astute evaluation of the question, and such-like--they know they might see a random extra point or two sprinkled around that way).

But if by the second or third class things are not any better, it might just be because the same students who don't do the work in a face-to-face class are just showing their true colors here as well, and that is, as someone said above, their prerogative to fail if that's the result of the other choices they've made.

Maybe there is another part of this I haven't caught on to, but that would be my thought.

[changinggears]

Not meaning at all to sound hard-hearted, or to encourage a caring instructor not to care, but....unless you need to show this course is somehow different from all other courses, in that no students (or very few) fail, I'm missing the reason it's your responsibility to make them do the work that's there to be done.

If there is a possible (inaccurate/impractical) perception among your admins (or chez toi?) that online options will lead to greater "student success" or something, I'd be worried, of course, because once again technology will be showing its non-magic clay feet, and you might be in the position of being the messenger who brings the reality-check/bad news...but otherwise, I don't know that you can really be too concerned with it.

I usually figure that as many As as Fs, and a few more Bs and Ds, with the average Cs in the middle, means the curve is working.  I might bump a few things up given extra credit options built into several assignments (and an EC option I allow myself when grading if I see a point in an essay that particularly shows an astute evaluation of the question, and such-like--they know they might see a random extra point or two sprinkled around that way).

But if by the second or third class things are not any better, it might just be because the same students who don't do the work in a face-to-face class are just showing their true colors here as well, and that is, as someone said above, their prerogative to fail if that's the result of the other choices they've made.

Maybe there is another part of this I haven't caught on to, but that would be my thought.

I agree.  I think the problem is that students, too, think of technology as making everything better/easier and so probably don't realize that an online or hybrid course will not be any easier than a F2F and, in some cases, may actually be harder.  If I'm reading the OP correctly, the question has to do with how to make them aware of this fact before they totally blow the course.  Of course, even with that done, there will still be those who don't pay attention (just like in a F2F course).  Often, students who take online courses are even less aware than students who see us on a regular basis because we're not shoving the info. in their face and they can't see/hear us, so the normally clueless are even more so and even the students who would be fairly reliable in a F2F are befuddled by having to be self-sufficient and self-motivated.

[octoprof]

If I'm reading the OP correctly, the question has to do with how to make them aware of this fact before they totally blow the course. 

That's it, in a nutshell. In a traditional live course, I can look them in the eye and read them the riot act regularly, if needed. I can tell by how they respond in class and what's on their desk in terms of homework effort who needs the riot act, who's trying but just failing, and who doesn't care. Online, not so much.

[dellaroux]

OK, so lack of a visual feedback-loop, that makes sense.

[octoprof]

OK, so lack of a visual feedback-loop, that makes sense.

I don't think they really care, honestly. It's just me that needs the feedback! :o)