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[thiuda]

I'm currently PhD student at a Korean university. I frequently get comments from individuals telling me that it will be impossible for me to work in US, CND, EURO and UK unis with a PhD from a Korean university. I find this hard to believe, because I think that more important than where one did one's degree is the quality of one's work.

A friend challenged me to find five individuals who hold a PhD from a Korean university and who are working as professors at universities in the US/CND/EURO or the UK. It has been difficult and I've been unable to identify any. There are many Korean individuals working at universities in the West with PhDs from American, Canadian, or British universities, but none, as far as I can see, with PhDs from universities in Korea.

I would be grateful for any help in identifying professors at western universities with a PhD from a Korean university.

Thanks in advance.

[zharkov]

I find this hard to believe, because I think that more important than where one did one's degree is the quality of one's work.

Everything counts.  The quality of your research, your pubs, your grad school, your undergrad school, the mentoring ability of your profs, how well connected your department is into your field's international research community, and so on and so on.  There is no universal law saying which is more important than which.

For looking for a job in the US, I think some key factors for a PhD from a Korean U would include the field, whether the person was a US citizen or permanent resident, the person's pubs in US or international journals, and the person's teaching experience.

A google search of Korean PhD graduates and US faculty should answer your specific question, and would require a hour or two of smart searching.
 

[thiuda]

A google search of Korean PhD graduates and US faculty should answer your specific question, and would require a hour or two of smart searching.

Thanks for your comments, zharkov. The reason I posted my query is because after spending an afternoon searching university websites I was unable to find any TT professors at US/CND universities with their PhD from a Korean university. I've spent some more time since, but still nothing. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but I'm becoming sceptical.

[busyslinky]

Indeed it is very rare.  I have a colleague who received a degree decades ago from an Indian University.  He worked for a number of years as a Post-Doc and Visiting Professor in Europe, published and networked greatly, and eventually ended up with a full-time position in England.  After a few years in England he found a position in the United States at a mid to lower tier teaching/research school. 

It was an Asian Ph.D. from India.  It is very rare, still. 

The problem with a Korean Ph.D. in the minds of U.S. schools is not just a residency issue, but whether there is a language issue.  Also, flying people in from Korea for interviews can be quite expensive.  Yet, if you show you can publish continuously (on your own) in the top tier journals, it will be easier. 

[msparticularity]

I think the publication issue may drive much of this. In my field at least (education), there is a longstanding problem with research as it is taught in most/all Asian doctoral programs: typically, it is not, in fact, true research at all since it is not original. I served for a little while as a reviewer for a journal that was attempting to bridge this--to provide an outlet for Asian scholars that would be supportive but also work to support Western research standards--and even allowing for the language issues, the work we were getting was terribly weak. A part of the move to hire many more U.S., Canadian and European scholars into Asian universities has been to improve their research standing, but as the CHE threads on working in Asian universities demonstrate, this is also often very problematic.

Given that you are already enrolled in a Korean doctoral program and apparently have no interest in moving elsewhere for your degree, my only advice would be that you really must become active in the U.S. research community, including presenting at conferences and publishing in very solid journals. Your position, I would guess, is rather similar to that of a U.S. doctoral student in a poorly-regarded U.S. program: such people do occasionally rise to good academic positions, but it requires enormous work to establish one's credibility.

[hiddendragon]

I think the reservation about hiring someone with a degree from abroad has to do with the culture of the institutions.  Many foreign-trained scholars, brilliant as they are, will not make good teachers for American students.  I'm from the US so I can only speak to that region.  They come from a different culture and they often have different expectations.  We had a scholar from China who taught here for a while.  He was so shocked by the lack of student respect and the way that he was expected to treat students more as an equal.  He was also shocked about the quality of our students in general--and the "flakiness" of our students in complaining about grades and such.  When they don't do the readings, he tried to use his cultural context to inspire them.  Essentially, he thought shaming them in front of the class--probably somethine he's used to doing in China--was acceptable and would inspire the students.  It only alienated them.  The poor guy, really smart, too, suffered such massive cultural shock, I think he was relieved when it was all over.  The students were left with worse impressions of Chinese profs in general.  Not a good thing for either.

[totoro]

Generally, PhDs from developing countries or countries that recently had developing status will either not be hired or only if they can show they can publish in the top international journals. I recommend to students who contact me who want to work in Australia to get a PhD from the US as the first preference and Australia second (but only top schools here like ANU, Melbourne, UNSW), and third choice UK. Someone contacted me about doing a PhD in Germany and I strongly recommended against doing that. We don't have anything against foreign degrees here but we prefer them to be American :) or British but then London and Oxbridge are best. I do know someone working at a good university here in my field with a German PhD and we have a postdoc with a PhD from Tokyo so there are exceptions.

[globalseek]

Thiuda,
You have my full sympathy. I'll speak the bitter truth. Yes, in an ideal world, the quality of our research should matter, not the tags of our institutions, publishers and our networking skills. But this is not an ideal world.

Especially in the West, there is an unhealthy obsession for labels and tags and there is a foregone prejudice in many places that any research, degree or publication that comes out of West is invariably superior to everything that comes out of everywhere else. In reality it's not true. I have seen absolute trash coming out of Ivy League and Oxbridge and prestigious university presses. Well, I should qualify that statement - a lot of absolute trash comes out of Asia as well, but a lot of good also comes out of Asia, and also from the West. Quality of academics is not defined by geography - if only this is an ideal world. But as I said, this is not an ideal world.

So, when in Rome, do as Romans do. If you want to compete in the West, get a Western PhD. It doesn't matter whether your Western PhD is low on actual quality, but you should have a Western (preferably American) PhD stamp on your degree.

You have not mentioned your discipline. Science and technology graduates from good Third World institutions manage to find places in the West. But this is not the case for humanities and Social Sciences - unless you specialize in a language that does not have many experts in the West.

Unfortunately, you have already got a PhD. So if you apply for a second PhD in the West, you will not get a fellowship. If you have the money (and age on your side), you can spend your own money and get a second PhD. Besides, you should concentrate on publishing from well-known Western publishers. Reputable university presses are best valued. Besides, see if you are fortunate enough to impress a senior professor who would like to help you to get a Post-Doc in a Western country, preferably in the US. But there is a slim chance of that.

If you apply for positions in the US with a Korean PhD, teaching experience and many publications, there is a strong chance that a fresh PhD from an American university without any significant publication will be preferred over you, simply because this person has a US PhD, never mind that your research quality is better and you know more about your subject than this US PhD does.

I'm sorry, I don't want to disappoint you, but this is how most Western institutions function.

I have coined a term for it - this is Academic Imperialism of the Neo-Colonial West. And it is amazing to see how widespread this attitude is across the Western world.

[globalseek]

I'm sorry, I noted later that you are still a PhD student in Korea. So, you have a chance. Just write the GRE and leave for the US. Don't complete your Korean PhD.

[csguy]

As a new Ph.D. unless you are actually in country, your discipline is in demand and the school you are applying to is not considered attractive (i.e. won't have many applicants) I would say you have no chance.

Later in your career if you have a strong research and publication record and are well connected professionally -- maybe.

[lurkingfear]

I agree with most of what has been said here. What I would add, and this only applies if you are in a STEM field, is that you need some post-doc experience in the US. If you are from a top research university in Korea, you won't have too much trouble finding something - though more trouble than a graduate of an American program. Most STEM faculty will know the top Asian universities and would respect anyone with a PhD from one of them, but it will still be an uphill battle to get into a faculty job in the US without a post-doc abroad (in the US or Europe perhaps). The way I look at it, if you have a PhD from Seoul University, Tokyo University, or one of the Indian Institutes of Technology, you had to work a hell of a lot harder to get where you are, and be better than more people, than a student in the US with a degree from Harvard (just based on numbers).

If you are good, a post-doc in the US this may lead to a job in the US, but it depends completely on your English skills. If they are poor, it will hold you back unless you are a star researcher in a field that doesn't require much teaching.

If nothing else, spending some time in the US will make you much more attractive for positions back home.

[globalseek]

I agree with lurkingfear. Only I feel PhDs from Seol Tokyo or IITs will be downgraded to even a PhD from a B-Grade US university, unless they try for a low-ranked school for a Post-Doc, where there are not many applicants. They have to begin work at a lower rung than most US PhDs and will take longer to reach a good position as compared to a US PhD.   

But if you want to ultimately come to the US anyway, why keep on staying for a PhD in Korea? It's better to move as soon as you can rather than postpone it. The longer you postpone your move, the more difficult it will be for you to move up in your career in the US.

[runwithscissors]

I'd chime with all of the above - and I'm a UK PhD who struggled in the US and has since moved back to Britain (for a 12 month postdoc of all things). My PhD was from a 'redbrick' university (ranked in the top 50 in the world if one is to believe such things) - and no-one I encountered in the US was remotely impressed. So one problem of not having a PhD from the US is the sense that it is automatically inferior to those from  second tier regional universities in the US. The other problem is of course of a more practical nature - I was simply a headache for most search committees. Not only did many not understand I don't have a graduate transcript, or that say the British Journal of Basket Weaving Studies is a perfectly respectable journal - comparable to the US equivalent, but they also had to sort out visas and assorted other minor inconveniences. In the end I realized that search committees would take the path of least resistance (i.e. a tier 1 research university PhD) every time and decided to move back to the Motherland.

[bluezebracat]

Whether you will be able to work in the US is field dependent.  If for example, you are working in French studies (history, lit, poli sci, etc.) having a Phd from a great French university is not a problem. 

The problem is not so much that your Phd is from a Korean uni but that it's another point of difference among many.  Harvard can place only a little more than half their Phds in social sciences--this is a small indicator of how competitive the market is.  If people from top universities domestically aren't getting jobs, and the final selection is sooo picky, then the foreign degree is just another unknown point that moves the app into reject pile.  It's not so much about a Korean Phd, as that the Phd is not necessarily from a familiar institution.

An associated problem is that the Korean government hasn't put in the money and effort into building the world class reputation of top Korean institutions (which are excellent) to the extent that say, Singapore has done in a relatively short period of time.

Having said that, this factor is one of many, and it doesn't mean that you won't ever get a job in the US.  Other countries, I can't speak for.

[zharkov]

... they also had to sort out visas and assorted other minor inconveniences.

I suspect that is true in both directions, that is, an American with a US PhD looking to get hired in SK or the UK.