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[books4jocks]

Is there a thread/discussion for those of us specifically seeking full-time positions at community colleges? Just curious. Seems like the CC search has it's own rules and rhythms that don't line up with others in some ways.

(I'm ABCD seeking English or developemental studies positions, esp. in the midwest. You?)

[luvstowrite]

No but I'm glad you brought it up. I've always wanted to see one that's separate but equal.

[karmann]

I'm really not trying to be snarky, I promise, but you want to make sure not to make the its/it's mistake if you're applying for English positions anywhere. 

[books4jocks]

Got my first rejection via HR website: status changed from "in progress" to "position filled." Lovely!

I will take the grammar advice with gentle good humor. Certainly, my application materials are revised carefully, unlike the posts I make to discussion boards while my kids are hanging off my legs and I'm trying to shovel dinner in my face before it's time to head out the door. Because that would be silly to worry about. Right?

[agusti]

I'm in favor of the cc thread too. Those institutions do seem to have different timelines and procedures (and expectations). I was offered a job at one a few years ago - the original job announcement appeared in late November, I didn't apply till around March and didn't get my on-campus interview until May, after the students were gone. It then took until mid-June before I heard anything more (when HR called with the offer). The salary was a good bit higher than I expected, which I came later to understand was possibly the result of a "points" system that some cc's (apostrophe intended) use to calculate where you fit salary-wise based on years of teaching, degrees, etc.

I've only seen a few CC postings in my field so far this year, I wonder if there will be more coming as "phase I" (the R1/SLAC hiring season) winds down.

Good luck in any event, and keep the thread going!

[books4jocks]

Maybe we should start collecting the general wisdom about the CC market we share. Sometime when I am not grading portfolios, I'll try to link to Rob Jenkins' columns on the two year college.

We should also talk about the idiosyncrasies of the CC market. From what I understand, there are often jobs posted in the spring -- have others heard this? I hope it's true, otherwise I'll wrap this season up with a whopping 4 applications (I'm searching in a limited geographical area).

I've noticed that most positions don't have deadlines, but instead say "open until filled." This makes me think getting an app in early is good, otherwise you might not make it in that first 'pile."

Finally, one weirdness to the CC market is the nature of job ads, which are clearly governed by HR checklists/requirements and sometimes are really difficult to parse (90% of one job I'm applying to apparently consists of "performing related duties with or without reasonable accommodation").

What else have you guys noticed? And it would be helpful to know what fields folks are in. I'm in English/Comp/Dev Ed (in case I haven't already said that).

[fizmath]

Maybe we should start collecting the general wisdom about the CC market we share. Sometime when I am not grading portfolios, I'll try to link to Rob Jenkins' columns on the two year college.

We should also talk about the idiosyncrasies of the CC market. From what I understand, there are often jobs posted in the spring -- have others heard this? I hope it's true, otherwise I'll wrap this season up with a whopping 4 applications (I'm searching in a limited geographical area).

I've noticed that most positions don't have deadlines, but instead say "open until filled." This makes me think getting an app in early is good, otherwise you might not make it in that first 'pile."

Finally, one weirdness to the CC market is the nature of job ads, which are clearly governed by HR checklists/requirements and sometimes are really difficult to parse (90% of one job I'm applying to apparently consists of "performing related duties with or without reasonable accommodation").

What else have you guys noticed? And it would be helpful to know what fields folks are in. I'm in English/Comp/Dev Ed (in case I haven't already said that).

Idiosyncrasies and weirdness, how apropos.  Schools in Wisconsin will ask for at least one year of non-academic working experience.  Apparently this could be bagging groceries but the trick might be trying to find documentation.  Some application requirements seemed so far out there that I decided unemployment would be better.  Some want a full page description of your experience with assessment or how you use technology in the classroom.  The City Colleges of Chicago will require that you live within city boundaries after getting hired.

Something worth knowing is that CC's generally will not pay for you to travel to the interview nor will they pay moving expenses.

I did finally succeed in getting hired at a CC and am in my third year but I am not really an expert on how to get hired.  You may notice that the job ads will mention something about preference for those with previous CC experience.  They seem to prefer to hire from within their own.

[agusti]

Just a quick note on timelines (which I mentioned in my post above): I do think the hiring season is a good bit later than that of other institutions, and as far as when to apply, the job that I ended up getting an offer for was advertised in late November, and I didn't apply until a few months later. So getting in early might be good; in my case they were apparently willing to wait for more apps to come in...

[grasshopper]

I have a question about CC ads!

There are very few CC jobs in my discipline, but when I do see something tangentially related, the job descriptions usually list a bunch of things like "must be able to prep a course" and "must meet with students" and "must be able to lift so much weight." These are obviously from an HR template. But often, I don't see any indication of the need for a particular specialization within the discipline.

What's that about?

And, all teaching experience being equal, how do I sell my specialization in response to ads like these? Or is the trick not to try to sell a specialization at all?

[compdoc]

8 years of adjuncting at CCs and one year in a ft position:

Previous CC experience
CCs have a huge load of students. Often these students are the ones who don't have the skills to go to college. They need basic remediation for math and English. CCs are open-admit, so if you got a HS diploma from somewhere, then you can attend. Very few four-year schools are like that (though University of Houston Downtown is). The reason CCs want you to have CC experience is because most graduate students teach to their own, often R-1, population. If you don't have CC experience, you don't have the correct mindset.

I tell people when I talk about my inner-city school that my students come in with an eighth-grade education. It is hard for them to read newspaper articles. Imagine going from R-1 to that in one semester.

No specializations
There are no specializations at CCs. They don't hire enough ft faculty for that. Plus, you will usually find that you and someone else in your department both want to teach all the X courses, because there are only two a year.

Example out of English: Out of 16 ft faculty at my present school, only one has a rhet/comp background. Every one of the ft teachers has to teach composition. All the other 15 are lit people. We only teach 30 lit sections a semester. CCs typically (around here anyway) have 5/5 loads. So there are only 2 lit sections per person. My CC works hard to share the courses; unfortunately sometimes that works out to the bad. We have a theater owner/director who is also a ft faculty here. He agreed two years ago to let someone else teach the drama course and he hasn't gotten it back.

The largest set of classes in English and math are the remedial courses. We have developmental courses for people who don't know that a sentence should start with a capital letter and end with a period. Most math teachers teach at least two of the remedial courses a semester. And they teach college algebra most often.

My last CC shared out the course load so that the four math sequences went to one teacher every two years. So ProfA would teach college algebra, trig, pre-cal, and calculus. Then in fall of the next year, ProfB would begin that sequence. Bad for students if you got a teacher you didn't mesh with. You'd have to wait a year to get someone else.

Hiring process
Most CCs do not advertise for positions until the spring. I've seen ending dates for applications as early as March and as late as August, for an August start date. The job I have now did not advertise till late June and did first on-campus interviews on July 12. Final interviews were July 22. They called ten days later with an offer and work started August 15.

In a good location, CCs can get hundreds of applications. The job I did not get last year told me there were 250+ applicants.

If you don't have any CC experience, you won't usually make the cut.

When there are 250+ applications, what makes your app stand out? The same thing as at any place: conferences and publications. The publications don't have to be top flight, but you do have to have some.

For the phone interview CCs call 20 or so people.

First interviews are 8-10, though I have heard of as many as 14.

Final interviews are for 3. Who makes the decision on the final one varies. At one CC it was the search committee, as long as the higher-ups did not disagree. At my CC it's the deans, as long as the president is okay with it.

[untenured]

Nice post.

This should be saved, stored or highlighted for future CC job seekers.

[books4jocks]

When there are 250+ applications, what makes your app stand out? The same thing as at any place: conferences and publications. The publications don't have to be top flight, but you do have to have some.

My understanding is that this can vary from place to place. Some places want the prestige, some places couldn't care less if you presented at MLA and are far more interested in your teaching and departmental service. I imagine a lot of places get applicants from people with no clue what it takes to work in a CC, and therefore start with the same research statement/explanation of the diss, which tells them nothing about how you can actually serve the program.

I think there's probably a lot of variation between schools, depending on the location/setting. For example, I know that the position I'm getting ready to apply for, a CC that shares my R1 university's location, is coveted and competitive and more interested in people with research agendas. But positions at more rural schools may be much less competitive, and much more interested in teaching specs.

[cc_and_grad]

8 years of adjuncting at CCs and one year in a ft position:

Previous CC experience
CCs have a huge load of students. Often these students are the ones who don't have the skills to go to college. They need basic remediation for math and English. CCs are open-admit, so if you got a HS diploma from somewhere, then you can attend. Very few four-year schools are like that (though University of Houston Downtown is). The reason CCs want you to have CC experience is because most graduate students teach to their own, often R-1, population. If you don't have CC experience, you don't have the correct mindset.

I tell people when I talk about my inner-city school that my students come in with an eighth-grade education. It is hard for them to read newspaper articles. Imagine going from R-1 to that in one semester.

No specializations
There are no specializations at CCs. They don't hire enough ft faculty for that. Plus, you will usually find that you and someone else in your department both want to teach all the X courses, because there are only two a year.

Example out of English: Out of 16 ft faculty at my present school, only one has a rhet/comp background. Every one of the ft teachers has to teach composition. All the other 15 are lit people. We only teach 30 lit sections a semester. CCs typically (around here anyway) have 5/5 loads. So there are only 2 lit sections per person. My CC works hard to share the courses; unfortunately sometimes that works out to the bad. We have a theater owner/director who is also a ft faculty here. He agreed two years ago to let someone else teach the drama course and he hasn't gotten it back.

The largest set of classes in English and math are the remedial courses. We have developmental courses for people who don't know that a sentence should start with a capital letter and end with a period. Most math teachers teach at least two of the remedial courses a semester. And they teach college algebra most often.

My last CC shared out the course load so that the four math sequences went to one teacher every two years. So ProfA would teach college algebra, trig, pre-cal, and calculus. Then in fall of the next year, ProfB would begin that sequence. Bad for students if you got a teacher you didn't mesh with. You'd have to wait a year to get someone else.

Hiring process
Most CCs do not advertise for positions until the spring. I've seen ending dates for applications as early as March and as late as August, for an August start date. The job I have now did not advertise till late June and did first on-campus interviews on July 12. Final interviews were July 22. They called ten days later with an offer and work started August 15.

In a good location, CCs can get hundreds of applications. The job I did not get last year told me there were 250+ applicants.

If you don't have any CC experience, you won't usually make the cut.

When there are 250+ applications, what makes your app stand out? The same thing as at any place: conferences and publications. The publications don't have to be top flight, but you do have to have some.

For the phone interview CCs call 20 or so people.

First interviews are 8-10, though I have heard of as many as 14.

Final interviews are for 3. Who makes the decision on the final one varies. At one CC it was the search committee, as long as the higher-ups did not disagree. At my CC it's the deans, as long as the president is okay with it.

With 20+ years at a CC, I can say compdoc is correct. I will add that my own CC advertises even later than mentioned. They are not in the same rhythm as traditional academics and they are not necessarily thinking of hiring the newly graduated or the currently teaching (I'm not saying they don't or won't, just that they are not thinking in those terms) and they don't get their funding approvals nearly soon enough to advertise in August for a position a year down the road. You can keep an eye out for CC ads pretty much all year long.

Also, teaching experience is certainly top priority. For us, at least, this can include adjunct experience, and it wouldn't hurt anyone looking for a job with us to do a little adjuncting to build up their background.

[books4jocks]

Question about ads #2: if the ad disappears, does that mean the job is filled? Or does it mean they're simply done collecting applications? Wish there was a CC wiki...

[compdoc]

When there are 250+ applications, what makes your app stand out? The same thing as at any place: conferences and publications. The publications don't have to be top flight, but you do have to have some.

My understanding is that this can vary from place to place. Some places want the prestige, some places couldn't care less if you presented at MLA and are far more interested in your teaching and departmental service. I imagine a lot of places get applicants from people with no clue what it takes to work in a CC, and therefore start with the same research statement/explanation of the diss, which tells them nothing about how you can actually serve the program.

I think there's probably a lot of variation between schools, depending on the location/setting. For example, I know that the position I'm getting ready to apply for, a CC that shares my R1 university's location, is coveted and competitive and more interested in people with research agendas. But positions at more rural schools may be much less competitive, and much more interested in teaching specs.

When I said that, I was thinking of here- urban center. But I can tell you that rural places aren't getting 250+ applications. And I know for a fact that the publications made a difference in the job I didn't get last year and got this year.

I will say that teaching is FIRST in importance. But they have to rule out a lot of good people and how do they do that? They pick something else besides teaching. If you don't have the teaching, you will hit the trash pile immediately. If you don't have something that indicates CC, the same. But once you have teaching and you have CC experience, then... they are looking at teaching their population, conferences, and publications.