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[netiquette]

Hi All,
I'm a fairly regular reader/writer in these fora, writing under a new nick for obvious reasons.

I've searched back and read a lot of the threads written on this topic, which have been helpful and interesting, but I admit I'm still a bit perplexed and would appreciate some insight, especially from those with experience.

I'm an advanced grad student in a humanities field at a large public university. I'm likely to go on the job market next year (looking for either a TT or good postdoc position). My SO and I have been increasingly talking about having kids, but like a lot of women in academia I'm worried about the timing. I am thirty years old, so while this isn't a critical issue just yet, it's beginning to get there.

I'm well aware that babies cannot always be planned and that you can't control how quickly you conceive or whether the pregnancy will be successful. Nonetheless, I think that some timing decisions can be made, at least in terms of "when do we begin to try".

As I said, I'm an advanced student, and I'm doing quite well. My advisor and other committee members have indicated that they are very pleased with my progress and that I am well ahead of schedule on the dissertation. Given my work habits and knowing my ability work well on a tight schedule, I am  fairly confident that even if I were to conceive tomorrow, I would likely (barring serious complications) be able to finish the dissertation within the nine months of the pregnancy, and certainly in time to graduate on schedule.
I am also doing pretty well on the other things related to professionalization and the job market (conference participation, submitting articles for review etc.)

I should also point out that my SO is not an academic and has a relatively high earning position, so that we shouldn't have difficulty facing the additional expense of a new child and should be able to get child care assistance when needed.

The reason for my being perplexed is that I get a lot of mixed comments on this topic.
There have been stories circulating around the department about certain male professors expressing deep disappointment about female grad students who get pregnant (they do not express the same sentiments about the multiple male students who have had children while studying at our department).

At the same time, several female grad students have had children during their PhDs and in most cases this did not even delay their graduation. I also have spoken with several older female professors who have indicated that they found the last years of grad school the most convenient time to have children.

One part of me thinks that now would actually be a pretty good time to have a first child, because I can probably do it without delaying my overall graduation plans and if I give birth sometime during the next academic year my schedule should be sufficiently flexible to allow me to care for the baby during their first few months of life, before starting my next position - whatever that might be.
In addition, knowing what I know about junior faculty lives, I'm worried that if we don't do it now, it will be considerably more difficult to do it in the following years, and as I said, I'm not very young.

However, another part of me is concerned. The main source of concern is obviously the job market. I'm not sure how much difficulty I might face on the job market if I am obviously pregnant, or if I have a small child at the time. I'd like to think that in 2010 this shouldn't be an issue anymore, but I know that it still can be. My other concern is from the reaction in my department. The latter is a smaller concern, because of course I won't actually be in my department for that much longer. However, I would like to leave here on good terms.

Anyway, sorry for this excessively long post. I know this topic has been discussed multiple times, but I really would appreciate any comments, insights or experience people might have.

[marigolds]

Screw them all.  Don't let a bunch of old white dude professors to whom you are not married dictate your reproductive plans.

I had mine right before comps.  My advisor (who's very successful) did the same, plus one more right before she went on the market (her husband and infant went to MLA with her, and she nursed the baby between interviews.)  If I wanted another one, I'd freaking have another one whenever I felt like it.

Do what you want. You can't plan everything.

[polly_mer]

Do what you want. You can't plan everything.

This.

If someone won't hire you when you are visibly pregnant, then they likely won't work with you to make accommodations of any kind when you have small children.

If someone is going to try to sabotage you as not serious just for having kids, then you likely were going to be sabotaged for not being serious on many counts (after all, you could have a kid at any time so you will always be under suspicion) so you might as well have the kids you want any way.

The only thing worse than dealing with the criticisms of how you (generic) are running your life is to be so afraid of the possible criticisms that you don't get what you want and yet still have to deal with the criticisms in other areas.

[marigolds]

The only thing worse than dealing with the criticisms of how you (generic) are running your life is to be so afraid of the possible criticisms that you don't get what you want and yet still have to deal with the criticisms in other areas.

Exactly.

[87735501111]

Still, let's be practical about the situation. Kids mean that you're less flexible, and that might impact your career. This will likely mean you won't be able to take a job if it means you can't relocate the whole family. That could mean you wouldn't be able to just take any old random postdoc wherever, and you might need a better starting salary. Or are you really such a superstar that you'll have a book contract by the time you finish, with several papers as well, the kinds of things that will be necessary to do well in this terrible market?

Also, even without having a kid, are you sure that your spouse will move with you if you can't get an initial job in a desirable city? Or are you willing to compromise, to be an adjunct or just a non-TT in order to wait a few years, publishing, being supported by your husband, to hold out for a good position to relocate?

[polly_mer]

Still, let's be practical about the situation.

Yes, let's be practical.

OP, only you can decide if you would rather have kids and maybe no academic career for now or no kids and maybe no academic career for now.  No one is guaranteed an academic career even without kids.  Thus, if you are gambling, where do you want to place your bets?  Also keep in mind that one can get a TT position at 50 or even 60, but the same is not generally true of children.

Bright people who know what they want usually find a way to get a good life and it is very much possible to have a good life that wanders in and out of academia.  People who buy into the idea that one must do X, Y, and Z because only one life is worth having tend to lead unhappy lives even if they get whatever it was they thought they ought to want.

[marigolds]

Still, let's be practical about the situation. Kids mean that you're less flexible, and that might impact your career. This will likely mean you won't be able to take a job if it means you can't relocate the whole family. That could mean you wouldn't be able to just take any old random postdoc wherever, and you might need a better starting salary. Or are you really such a superstar that you'll have a book contract by the time you finish, with several papers as well, the kinds of things that will be necessary to do well in this terrible market?

Also, even without having a kid, are you sure that your spouse will move with you if you can't get an initial job in a desirable city? Or are you willing to compromise, to be an adjunct or just a non-TT in order to wait a few years, publishing, being supported by your husband, to hold out for a good position to relocate?

All true, but...some of us aren't willing to give up things that are important to us (like marriages and/or children) and put the job market first for the rest of our lives.  If you're not one of those for whom career is THE most-and-only important thing, then do what is important to you and deal with the consequences.

On edit: Polly, I've never before agreed with you so hard. 

[wellfleet]

Marigolds is wise--carpe diem.

[netiquette]

Re: being practical, obviously no one is guaranteed a job in this terrible job market, but this is true whether or not I have children. Also, no one is ever guaranteed a job in the exact place where one wants to live and for the exact salary one wants. My spouse and I have already talked about this and, regardless of children, have made our decision as to what kinds of sacrifices we are or are not willing to make with regards to my own career as well as his depending on what happens on the job market. I may be completely wrong about this, but I'm not sure how having a small child would alter these decisions at this point, since we're not talking about an older child who is already settled in a specific place with a school and friends etc. Obviously that may become an issue in the future, but presumably not within the next year or two.

Either way, thank you all for these multiple perspectives , both those that have been somewhat sobering, and those that have been supportive. From talking to other female grad students this seems to be on a lot of people's minds. I honestly wish this was something that was more openly discussed in academia.

[dr_prephd]

We're of the generation where career is / was supposed to come first. But I think a lot of people our age (I'm a couple years older than you) are realizing that no job is worth sacrificing family and happiness to get. Go ahead and try to have the baby. I'll tell you from experience that it may take quite a long time to be successful at procreation. In the meantime, you have your grad. work and job search to keep you busy and occupied, if not totally fulfilled.

[heynonnynonnymouse]

This is all just anecdotal, but I've known several people in my discipline who have been very successful having children during graduate school, either during comps study or while dissertating. I do think it's probably best not to go on the market while visibly pregnant - because there *ARE* people who will hold that against you, maybe even subconsciously - but otherwise, I say go on and do it.

I'm 29, finishing up my coursework soon, and in a relationship that's getting more serious by the day with a great SO who is a non-academic, and this weighs heavily on my mind, too. I love reading these responses.

[scampster]

This is all just anecdotal, but I've known several people in my discipline who have been very successful having children during graduate school, either during comps study or while dissertating. I do think it's probably best not to go on the market while visibly pregnant - because there *ARE* people who will hold that against you, maybe even subconsciously - but otherwise, I say go on and do it.

I know it happens, but this just makes no sense to me. Most people are interviewing for jobs that start 6 months out or so. If you were inclined to be prejudiced against pregnant women at all, wouldn't you be thinking "Oh good, she'll have popped out the baby and maternity leave won't be our problem by the time she starts."?

[anon99]

As others said, do what you want.  As you are in the humanities, you don't need to worry about experiments; either from the perspective of getting them done or if you do get pregnant having to worry about being exposed to chemicals.

[mouseman]

I'll quote Henry F. Howe, Distinguished Professor of Liberal Arts and Sciences at University of Illinois at Chicago.  He's an ecologist, like me, so that means that he's wise:

In the overall plan of an academic career, it may be a good idea to have a first child, if that is a desire, in grad school rather than later in a first job, when demands on your time will be much more pervasive and invasive. You are younger, can get by on less sleep, fertility problems are less likely to intrude, and you actually have much more time as a doctoral student than you will at any time trying to become or actually being a professor.

Then there is old number here:

Still, let's be practical about the situation. Kids mean that you're less flexible, and that might impact your career. This will likely mean you won't be able to take a job if it means you can't relocate the whole family. That could mean you wouldn't be able to just take any old random postdoc wherever, and you might need a better starting salary. Or are you really such a superstar that you'll have a book contract by the time you finish, with several papers as well, the kinds of things that will be necessary to do well in this terrible market?

Also, even without having a kid, are you sure that your spouse will move with you if you can't get an initial job in a desirable city? Or are you willing to compromise, to be an adjunct or just a non-TT in order to wait a few years, publishing, being supported by your husband, to hold out for a good position to relocate?

First, well, duh.  Second, let me introduce you to a little thing called "balancing life and career" - people do it, you know.  In fact, there are multiple forumites who have kids/families and wonderful careers. 

So, let us follow your logic through:  You can't have kids or a relationship during grad school, 'cause it would interfere with your possibilities of getting a postdoc.  Then, when you got that postdoc, you can't have kids or any relationship, 'cause it would interfere with your job opportunities.  Of course, kids and relationships would be impossible during tenure-track, because they would interfere with getting tenure.  After that, you want to work toward getting that full professorship, as well as getting recognition in your field, raises, and grants.
So, I guess, you would say that the best time for an academic to have a child is, say, when they achieve Emeritus status?

[netiquette]

So, let us follow your logic through:  You can't have kids or a relationship during grad school, 'cause it would interfere with your possibilities of getting a postdoc.  Then, when you got that postdoc, you can't have kids or any relationship, 'cause it would interfere with your job opportunities.  Of course, kids and relationships would be impossible during tenure-track, because they would interfere with getting tenure.  After that, you want to work toward getting that full professorship, as well as getting recognition in your field, raises, and grants.
So, I guess, you would say that the best time for an academic to have a child is, say, when they achieve Emeritus status?

Thanks for this.

I hope I'm safe in assuming that when you say "let us follow your logic through" you are referring to "number"'s logic, rather than mine?