olemissbiker
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« on: November 11, 2010, 02:35:09 PM » |
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There was a great deal of response to the recent thread about about what title students should use when speaking to adjuncts..... I have an off-shoot question...
If you get an EdD are you a Dr._____? I've heard that you need an MD or PhD to be referred to as "Dr." and that officially, while and EdD allows you to boast of a doctorate, you do not get the benefit of the title.
Anyone care to weigh in?
Thanks.
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madhatter
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Just killing time
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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2010, 02:45:41 PM » |
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Yes, people with EdDs (and other professional doctorates) call themselves "doctor."
What do you mean "officially"? Is there a registered peerage I wasn't aware of?
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"I may be an evil scientist, but it doesn't take a degree purchased from the Internet with your ex-wife's money to know how special and important you are to me." -- Dr. Doofenschmirtz
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this_is_my_username
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« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2010, 04:41:03 PM » |
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Yes. Frequently. It's a pain in my side.
The EdDs (administrators) I have known got their degrees through some online university in 6-12 mo. and make twice my salary. They always liked to rub that in since I took years getting my Ph.D. by, you know, doing original research collected in the field. They call us Ph.Ds by our first name, we have to call them Dr. so-and-so.
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« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 04:42:15 PM by this_is_my_username »
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emerson_scholar
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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2010, 05:18:19 PM » |
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Yes and no.
With an Ed.D. you are "Dr." XYZ.
Make sense?
:-)
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larryc
Hu hatin'
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Eschew the hu.
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« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2010, 06:30:37 PM » |
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You are only "Dr." to other Ed.Ds.
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seniorscholar
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« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2010, 08:24:53 PM » |
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The only people I know who ever call themselves "Dr." are Ed.D.s who work in the public school system. And I think they only time I've ever called myself "Dr." is when meeting with someone like an overbearing elementary school counselor who wanted to put my kid in a special "gifted" program when the kid wanted to continue being sent to the library to read books when the class work was too boring to bear.
And I do mean "only people" -- my M.D. calls herself "Anna" and the dentist, who carefully calls me "Dr. Scholar," introduces himself as "Michael"
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sagit
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2010, 12:44:13 PM » |
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The only people I know who ever call themselves "Dr." are Ed.D.s who work in the public school system. And I think they only time I've ever called myself "Dr." is when meeting with someone like an overbearing elementary school counselor who wanted to put my kid in a special "gifted" program when the kid wanted to continue being sent to the library to read books when the class work was too boring to bear.
And I do mean "only people" -- my M.D. calls herself "Anna" and the dentist, who carefully calls me "Dr. Scholar," introduces himself as "Michael"
Interesting. My doctors and dentists have all referred to themselves as Dr. so-and-so. I have a PhD and introduce myself as Dr. Sagitta to my classes though I tell my grad students they can call me by my first name. This semester they seem to have taken to calling me Dr. Sagitta for the most part. But back to the OP's question. If you have an Ed.D. from Harvard, it is certainly equivalent to a Ph.D. and probably some other places as well. However, the glut of poor quality Ed.D. degrees out there taint the degree. It's a shame. There really could be more high quality Ed.D. degrees that provide educators in the public K-12 sector with a rigorous and respectable training such that meeting all such folks with those degrees would provide the same level of respect that one would give to their medical doctor or dentist. However, given the climate of disrespect for the teaching profession, it is hard to get good people into the field. |
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kaysixteen
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« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2010, 04:47:20 PM » |
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I know that Harvard only awards the EdD in Education, no PhD. Does anyone know why this is, and whether they subject their EdD students to the same rigor other depts. there subject their PhD candidates to? Certainly an EdD from any school that also awards a PhD in Ed is decidedly inferior by nature, and most EdDs are cheapo degrees from cheapo cash-cow pseudo- or at best semi-scholarly programs.
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zharkov
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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2010, 11:01:44 PM » |
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I know that Harvard only awards the EdD in Education, no PhD. Does anyone know why this is, and whether they subject their EdD students to the same rigor other depts. there subject their PhD candidates to? Certainly an EdD from any school that also awards a PhD in Ed is decidedly inferior by nature, and most EdDs are cheapo degrees from cheapo cash-cow pseudo- or at best semi-scholarly programs.
Most Ed.D. programs are basically credentialing programs for people who work in public education, superintendents, principals, curriculum coordinators, and such. They are often designed around state standards for public school employees, and are not for training college faculty in research and scholarship. So I suspect that if an education school awarded both the Ed.D. and the Ph.D., the first degree is for public school administrators, the second for potential college faculty. About Harvard, based on an unscientific sample size of one, an Ed.D. grad of their program told me, more or less, that is wasn't the best ed department in the country, but that it had the best brand name. And was more respected the further one traveled from Cambridge. |
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__________ Zharkov's Razor: Adapting Zharkov a bit to this situation, ignorance and confusion can explain a lot.
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systeme_d_
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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2010, 11:57:35 PM » |
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About Harvard, based on an unscientific sample size of one, an Ed.D. grad of their program told me, more or less, that is wasn't the best ed department in the country, but that it had the best brand name. And was more respected the further one traveled from Cambridge. Bingo. Right on the money. |
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Systeme_D is right. <rah rah RESEARCH!> |
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msparticularity
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« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2010, 01:33:18 AM » |
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I know that Harvard only awards the EdD in Education, no PhD. Does anyone know why this is, and whether they subject their EdD students to the same rigor other depts. there subject their PhD candidates to? Certainly an EdD from any school that also awards a PhD in Ed is decidedly inferior by nature, and most EdDs are cheapo degrees from cheapo cash-cow pseudo- or at best semi-scholarly programs.
Most Ed.D. programs are basically credentialing programs for people who work in public education, superintendents, principals, curriculum coordinators, and such. They are often designed around state standards for public school employees, and are not for training college faculty in research and scholarship. So I suspect that if an education school awarded both the Ed.D. and the Ph.D., the first degree is for public school administrators, the second for potential college faculty. About Harvard, based on an unscientific sample size of one, an Ed.D. grad of their program told me, more or less, that is wasn't the best ed department in the country, but that it had the best brand name. And was more respected the further one traveled from Cambridge. The sentence I've bolded above has certainly been true in many cases (and your second point about both degrees is right on), but it's actually a bit more complex than that. Columbia Teachers College, for example, is one of the top programs in the world in education, and they award only the EdD. This makes sense if you look at who founded the program--John Dewey--and remember how firmly he believed theory and practice should be connected. IOW, the EdD in this case was a rejection of the kind of abstraction and distance from actual classroom issues that the PhD can sometimes engender. It is one of the most rigorous programs in the world, and also is still one of those with the strongest connection to practice. |
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"Once admit that the sole verifiable or fruitful object of knowledge is the particular set of changes that generate the object of study...and no intelligible question can be asked about what, by assumption, lies outside." John Dewey
"Be particular." Jill Conner Browne
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edumacator
Let our love be a flame, not an ember/Say it's me that you want to dis-
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Posts: 129
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« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2010, 11:39:30 AM » |
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I know that Harvard only awards the EdD in Education, no PhD. Does anyone know why this is, and whether they subject their EdD students to the same rigor other depts. there subject their PhD candidates to? Certainly an EdD from any school that also awards a PhD in Ed is decidedly inferior by nature, and most EdDs are cheapo degrees from cheapo cash-cow pseudo- or at best semi-scholarly programs.
Most Ed.D. programs are basically credentialing programs for people who work in public education, superintendents, principals, curriculum coordinators, and such. They are often designed around state standards for public school employees, and are not for training college faculty in research and scholarship. So I suspect that if an education school awarded both the Ed.D. and the Ph.D., the first degree is for public school administrators, the second for potential college faculty. About Harvard, based on an unscientific sample size of one, an Ed.D. grad of their program told me, more or less, that is wasn't the best ed department in the country, but that it had the best brand name. And was more respected the further one traveled from Cambridge. The sentence I've bolded above has certainly been true in many cases (and your second point about both degrees is right on), but it's actually a bit more complex than that. Columbia Teachers College, for example, is one of the top programs in the world in education, and they award only the EdD. This makes sense if you look at who founded the program--John Dewey--and remember how firmly he believed theory and practice should be connected. IOW, the EdD in this case was a rejection of the kind of abstraction and distance from actual classroom issues that the PhD can sometimes engender. It is one of the most rigorous programs in the world, and also is still one of those with the strongest connection to practice. And to think that I turned down an admissions offer from Columbia's EdD program to pursue a Big Ten PhD. If I'd known it would impress women, I might have reconsidered. Would you, msparticularity, have greater respect for me had I attended the campus in Morningside Heights? Would the Columbia pedigree have made me more dashing, charming, and debonaire? Or would I have been horrified that one of my fellow TC alums ripped off St. John's University to the tune of over a million bucks and thus hidden in shame from the fair and freaky alike? ETA: oh, look! My 100th post! |
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« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 11:43:09 AM by edumacator »
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zharkov
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« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2010, 05:15:35 PM » |
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I know that Harvard only awards the EdD in Education, no PhD. Does anyone know why this is, and whether they subject their EdD students to the same rigor other depts. there subject their PhD candidates to? Certainly an EdD from any school that also awards a PhD in Ed is decidedly inferior by nature, and most EdDs are cheapo degrees from cheapo cash-cow pseudo- or at best semi-scholarly programs.
Most Ed.D. programs are basically credentialing programs for people who work in public education, superintendents, principals, curriculum coordinators, and such. They are often designed around state standards for public school employees, and are not for training college faculty in research and scholarship. So I suspect that if an education school awarded both the Ed.D. and the Ph.D., the first degree is for public school administrators, the second for potential college faculty. About Harvard, based on an unscientific sample size of one, an Ed.D. grad of their program told me, more or less, that is wasn't the best ed department in the country, but that it had the best brand name. And was more respected the further one traveled from Cambridge. The sentence I've bolded above has certainly been true in many cases (and your second point about both degrees is right on), but it's actually a bit more complex than that. Columbia Teachers College, for example, is one of the top programs in the world in education, and they award only the EdD. This makes sense if you look at who founded the program--John Dewey--and remember how firmly he believed theory and practice should be connected. IOW, the EdD in this case was a rejection of the kind of abstraction and distance from actual classroom issues that the PhD can sometimes engender. It is one of the most rigorous programs in the world, and also is still one of those with the strongest connection to practice. And to think that I turned down an admissions offer from Columbia's EdD program to pursue a Big Ten PhD. If I'd known it would impress women, I might have reconsidered. Would you, msparticularity, have greater respect for me had I attended the campus in Morningside Heights? Would the Columbia pedigree have made me more dashing, charming, and debonaire? Or would I have been horrified that one of my fellow TC alums ripped off St. John's University to the tune of over a million bucks and thus hidden in shame from the fair and freaky alike? ETA: oh, look! My 100th post! Maybe or maybe not, but the TC regalia is really sharp. Some former colleagues went there, a nice blue as I recall. |
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__________ Zharkov's Razor: Adapting Zharkov a bit to this situation, ignorance and confusion can explain a lot.
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jon_margerumleys
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« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2010, 05:26:35 PM » |
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There are lots of kinds of doctorates. DDS, DVM, JD, DFA, DMA, PhD, EdD, MD, DD, DO, to name just a few. They can all be called doctor (though JDs never are, that I've heard). Quality varies within each of the types of doctorate; there are certainly poor-quality programs in each type of doctorate, as there are also good-quality programs.
I'd agree that EdD degree programs tend to be less rigorous than PhD, but the distributions overlap, in my opinion.
Jon
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adjunctprincipessa
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« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2010, 05:02:35 AM » |
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As far as I know, Harvard is the only school in which the Ed.D is their only terminal degree. Teachers College offers both the Ed.D and Ph.D. The Ed.D requires more coursework (90 credits) than the Ph.D. (75 credits). According to TC, the Ph.D emphasizes research and intensive specialization in a selected field of scholarship, and the Ed.D emphasizes broad preparation for advanced professional responsibilities. Ph.D students are subject to the regulations of the graduate schools of Columbia, so if there is a language requirement in a similar department at Columbia, Ph.d students at TC would need to fulfill this requirement, and Ed.D students would be exempt.
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