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[cranefly]

Albany is not all that far from French-speaking parts of Canada, and to do business in North America, it's an advantage to know some French. Believe it or not, there are some parts of Canada where English is not spoken at all, and they don't necessarily learn it. Canada is your biggest trading partner, by the way.

[unusedusername]

French is dying.  Sorry, but it is.  So is German, Italian, and a bunch of other languages, many outside Europe.  At the time when most Americans were recent immigrants from Italy, Germany, etc., and the main powers of the world were European nations, it made sense that the languages offered were French, Russian, German, and Italian.  Not so much anymore.

100 years from now, a majority of people will speak either English, Spanish or Mandarin Chinese.  Those are the languages worth learning.  I'll also point out that, in the sciences, the time where you had to read journals in languages other than English has passed.  Chemists don't have to learn German anymore.

[jonesey]

French is dying.  Sorry, but it is. 

Sure, unless you work in Europe, or Africa, or Canada, or Haiti, or with/for the UN. 

In the military, French is the being taught to special operations troops because 1.  it's a secondary language in many parts of the world where terrorism is flourishing and 2. it's easier to learn than Arabic.

Don't be so quick to write off French.

[eumaios]

Who needs any of them furrin-language classes in college? Everybody knows that the USA is #1 (USA! USA! USA!), so all them furriners just have to learn English. Besides, if Americans learn all them other languages, that just makes it easier for all them furriners to come here and take our jobs and build mosques and take our guns and force their laws down our throats. And maybe even marry our sisters and daughters.

(Ya know, I really ought to run for public office here in South Carolina.)

[monsterx]

French is dying.  Sorry, but it is.  So is German, Italian, and a bunch of other languages, many outside Europe.  At the time when most Americans were recent immigrants from Italy, Germany, etc., and the main powers of the world were European nations, it made sense that the languages offered were French, Russian, German, and Italian.  Not so much anymore.

100 years from now, a majority of people will speak either English, Spanish or Mandarin Chinese.  Those are the languages worth learning.  I'll also point out that, in the sciences, the time where you had to read journals in languages other than English has passed.  Chemists don't have to learn German anymore.

Lots of languages are dying, it is true.  Manx, for example, looks to be on its last legs.  But if you think German, Italian or French are dying, you need to get out of your cellar and sniff the fresh air.   Just because the Europeans in American action movies speak (generically accented) English together does not mean that actual people do that in real life.  If you go to these places you will quickly learn that pretty much everybody speaks their native local language, pretty much all the time.  If they speak English to you, it will be because you don't speak their language, not because they speak English (or Mandrin or whatever) at home with their kids. 

Whether there are important scientific journals and books in other languages depends on your discipline.

[macaroon]

Albany is not all that far from French-speaking parts of Canada, and to do business in North America, it's an advantage to know some French. Believe it or not, there are some parts of Canada where English is not spoken at all, and they don't necessarily learn it. Canada is your biggest trading partner, by the way.

This is true!  I've been to Quebec many times, and I've had to use my rudimentary French every single time I've gone.  Admittedly, I go there as a tourist and don't need much more than Je voudrais le poutine, non fume, Ou se trouve mon toque, and ilya caribou en haute?   Once, Mr. Macaroon and I were the only people at a backcountry camp that had found a water source.  It was about a mile from camp, and over the river and through the woods. 
I had to give directions....in French.  The other hikers were not so optimistic when they set out, but they all came back with water! 

Did NOT learn this at school, though - I have a CD and book that I'll use for a couple of minutes a night for a month before every trip I make. 

Personally, all of my attempts to learn a foreign language have been miserable failures, and I wish someone would do something about that.  As a student, I never had the money to do any kind of program that involved going overseas.  "Semester abroad" doesn't tend to work out very well for science undergrads, either.  With Spanish, I've found that Spaniards are happy to help me practice speaking Spanish, but immigrants from other countries seem unwilling.  So I'm stuck where I can understand most Spanish conversations, I can read Spanish pretty well, but can't speak more than 10 words.

It would be awesome if I could learn Mandarin because there are a lot of opportunities for collaboration with China in my discipline.

What can be done, folks? 

[merce]

Why are Foreign literatures and cultures only worth studying if there are lots of people speaking them on the day you choose to sign up for a class in that subject?

I don't see the rapport.


Who decided the point of learning 17th -century Spanish theatre today was important because there were lots of Spanish-speakers (who haven't ever heard of any of these dramaturges) roaming the planet?

I just don't get it.


 I don't understand the thinking behind Foreign-Language Literature education on higher ed campuses at all?

What is our point?
Do we even know? Does anyone know what anyone else thinks?  How can we even fight if we have no unified objective or reason for being?

The American Council of Teachers of Foreign Languages might have a blurb.
But I don't think they are in line with MLA and ADFL notions of what a Department of For. Lang. & Lit. departments on university campuses do.  ACTFL is about language learning only.  They are more k-12. So this is not what a university department sees itself doing necessarily.  They provide the following statement of philosophy:

Language and communication are at the
heart of the human experience. The
United States must educate students who
are linguistically and culturally equipped
to communicate successfully in a pluralistic
American society and abroad. This
imperative envisions a future in which
ALL students will develop and maintain
proficiency in English and at least one
other language, modern or classical.
Children who come to school from non-
English backgrounds should also have
opportunities to develop further proficiencies
in their first language.

--

Statement of Philosophy
Standards for Foreign Language Learning



Even perusing the ADFL and MLA websites I cannot find a declaration of what the purpose of a For. Lang. Department is within the context of Higher Ed.

The Association of Departments of Foreign Languages has a toolkit for departments facing closure.

[concordancia]

Why are Foreign literatures and cultures only worth studying if there are lots of people speaking them on the day you choose to sign up for a class in that subject?

I don't see the rapport.


Who decided the point of learning 17th -century Spanish theatre today was important because there were lots of Spanish-speakers (who haven't ever heard of any of these dramaturges) roaming the planet?

Actually, while I am sure there are still plenty of Spanish speakers who have never heard of them, Calderon de la Barca and Lope de Vega are taught in elementary and high schools in Spanish speaking countries, along with Cervantes. Fuenteovejuna is the Spartacus of Hispanic culture.

Still wouldn't want to be the one teaching them to our students, just wanted to set the record straight.

[fiona]

Rush Limbaugh says we can stuff our languages, more or less.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/09/a-tv-commercial-in-spanish.html

The Fiona

[merce]

Why are Foreign literatures and cultures only worth studying if there are lots of people speaking them on the day you choose to sign up for a class in that subject?

I don't see the rapport.


Who decided the point of learning 17th -century Spanish theatre today was important because there were lots of Spanish-speakers (who haven't ever heard of any of these dramaturges) roaming the planet?

Actually, while I am sure there are still plenty of Spanish speakers who have never heard of them, Calderon de la Barca and Lope de Vega are taught in elementary and high schools in Spanish speaking countries, along with Cervantes. Fuenteovejuna is the Spartacus of Hispanic culture.

Still wouldn't want to be the one teaching them to our students, just wanted to set the record straight.

I know. I teach them. Not my specialty but it's definitely the passion of some and a tradition I think is very important.
But I still think we're teaching oranges for a reason based on apples.

The reason it is ok to teach Spanish is because we have tons of people speaking it in the world today (according to a US-centric view it is THE language to know after English).
BUT
while the public and lawmakers think "speaking" with Spanish-speakers is the purpose of Spanish Lang. education, many folks in a university dept. think the dept. should teach Calderon de la Barca.
That's the disconnect I'm trying to consider.

The good that comes from learning CdB surely is comparable to that which comes from the study of Descartes or Voltaire (bad tastes of folks not withstanding).  And as such, then what is the reason to teach CdB and not Voltaire?
Why have a Span dept (or section or program) that teaches CdB but no French dept (or section) teaching Voltaire?

I don't think the public that believes in Span. Lang. instruction believes in teaching all that is taught in spanish-speaking -country schools so that doesn't work.

We can't, if we want CdB and/or (either one really and truly) taught on campus, accept the logic of teaching the stuff of a pervasive culture.

[oldfullprof]

French and German are still languages of scholarship in ways that Mandarin and Spanish (or Italian, probably) are not.  I'd always offer all five, though, and Arabic too.  Maybe Russian too.  At the masters comprehensive level, I'd offer French, German, and Spanish.

[tee_bee]

Isn't New York a 100% blue state ? I thought Democrats were cherishing education and cultural diversity more than their own lives.

Anyway, students can still transfer to Texas-Austin. There, they still teach French, Classics, Russian, Italian and Classics. 

You weren't around when Mario Cuomo was gov. Dem and Repub governors hate SUNY equally.

SUNYA killed the German program years ago. "They can take German at RPI." Does RPI teach German? Hmmm.

Jonsey, above: upstate is not "decidedly red." Albany and Schenectady Co, and other upstate cities, are pretty blue. It's not really ideology that drives these decisions, it's money. And, like I said, hating on SUNY comes with the territory for NYS governors.

[oldfullprof]

Montgomery County is pretty red (and not in a good way.)  At least they're not obnoxious about it here, as in Utica.

[concordancia]

Rush Limbaugh says we can stuff our languages, more or less.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/09/a-tv-commercial-in-spanish.html

The Fiona

H$%%& FVK! I know he is offensive to many people, but that he could possibly associate feministization(WTF?) with "What have I done to bring this on myself?" --- anyone still insisting that this attitude is dead on the rape thread should see this :(

You might offer French and German at the Master's comprehensive level, but you wouldn't get many students. Our French and German undergrad programs each have ~10% the student of our Spanish programs here. All the other languages people keep mentioning aren't even programs, just one overworked adjunct each and whatever native speakers each one can scrape together to help, teaching some classes for Japanese, Arabic, Chinese and ASL.

[merce]

...
You weren't around when Mario Cuomo was gov. Dem and Repub governors hate SUNY equally.

SUNYA killed the German program years ago. "They can take German at RPI." Does RPI teach German? Hmmm.
...

What was that? Did someone ask about RPI?

I believe you will find an eerily similar letter to the one by SUNY Albany's French dept. from RPI's For. Lang. faculty from last year floating around.


And assocprof's remark about languages of scholarship is what I mean by apples and oranges.
Scholarship reading ability, communication, Calderon de la Barca.
All different objectives with different means of reaching the objective and a different departmental model implied.

What a mess.