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[fencingturtle]

I am in my first semester of my final year for my Bachelors. I am pretty set on being an English Literature Professor. I know I need a good strong Phd and a lot of patients for getting a job. Problem is my Bachelors degree and resume is all over the place. I transferred after two years from a public 4 year college to a privet University where I have a concentration in creative writing and a minor in history. My GPA is roughly 3.4 but was a 3.6 before I transferred. My languages are horrible. I tested in to intermediate French but, in order to graduate on time I took a year of German instead. I learned very little but still pulled off a B. Thanks to time I had to schedule GRE’s in early November and though I am studying I am not very confident because I have not been able to study as much as I would like to. In terms of extra circulars I have always held a job threw out my education but none that have anything to with my education and I have always fenced usually acting as a coach or captain depending on where I am. Finally I have a learning disability which my English adviser is pushing this year. It makes spelling difficult and editing work twice as long. It is clearly something that will affect me in grad school but no one seems to have an idea how much. I have my own ways of working around it but it is not going away any time soon.

I am just trying to figure out my prospects. I have been talking with my professors, though helpful, they had many different opinions. My thought process is a European school might make me look better to the top United States universities, thus getting me more funding and putting me in a better position for a career. I might be able to round out my education and pick up my languages. Of course the issue is money. I have none and my parents have very little. I am also going into a career that might not pay me well, especially at first.

What do I do? Do I settle for a lower end Unites States school because it will save me money or do I go with Europe, get the experience, and hope it pays off latter? Will it pay off for me latter?

I really appreciate any one who might have some incite.

[hegemony]

I'm afraid things do not look especially promising for your career as a literature professor.  You should realize that the way the market is now, even people with spectacular g.p.a.s and credentials from top universities are having a hard time getting jobs.  There are too many people with doctorates and too few jobs.  And your learning disability will make it especially hard to do the kind of work which would put you at the top of the heap.  One thing I might note is that the Forums here have an automatic spellcheck feature, but you didn't use it, which suggests to me that academic orientation is not really where your heart lies.

A degree from Europe will not be an advantage unless it's from Oxford or Cambridge, and admissions there are very, very competitive, of course.  Perhaps more importantly, there is almost no funding available for Americans, short of awards like Marshalls, which are even more competitive.  A 3.6 g.p.a. is extremely unlikely to qualify you for this.  You could take out a mountain of loans, but this is always unadvisable.  The rule of thumb is: don't go to grad school unless the grad school funds you.  Otherwise you will spend the rest of your life crippled by debt, and even so the odds are against your getting a secure academic job.

So your other choice would be to try for a lower-tier American program, but once again, employment prospects are low.  I wonder if there aren't other paths that would suit you better.  It sounds as if you're athletic, and if you like the teaching aspects of academia, maybe a job as a coach would be a good fit? 

Remember that the most fun part of academia (to my mind) -- reading all the books -- is available to anyone.  You can still read all the books.  But these are very tough times for literature professors, even those with perfect g.p.a.s and no learning disabilities.  Many people like the structured aspects of the job training, as well as the idea that the PhD credential will get you a job.  But the debt isn't worth it, and most people who start graduate work will not end up as academics.  I really encourage you to explore what other kinds of work you might be suited for, and pursue a different path.  Sorry to be discouraging.

[daniel_von_flanagan]

My languages are horrible.

Including your English.

I call troll, no actual would-be English PhD is so prone to egregious errors in spelling and usage. - DvF

[scampster]

My languages are horrible.

Including your English.

I call troll, no actual would-be English PhD is so prone to egregious errors in spelling and usage. - DvF

Aw DvF, I give them the benefit of the doubt that a learning disability impairs their ability to write everything correctly without heavy editing. It is a little painful to read, but a fora post isn't a paper. Gosh, I have had brilliant professors who misuse words all the time in course notes and whatnot.

Anyway, back to the point. Hegemony gives good advice, especially about not going to grad school if you aren't getting a monetary package from the department, whether it be in the US or Europe.

[lyndonparker]

Assuming the query is serious, I think candidates do themselves a disadvantage attending a doctoral program outside of the United States if their ultimate goal is to work in the US. I teach at a SLAC in the midwest and my doctoral program is roughly 900 miles away. I had to do some persuading the SC I wanted to return, even though I grew up in an adjoining state and completed my undergraduate work in this part of the country. I can only imagine this task would be harder if one had attended a school elsewhere, especially one not well known to SC members. Don't go, especially in lit.

[fencingturtle]

Any thoughts on other paths I should take? I have my History minor, though I doubt it would look good enough to get my PhD. Coaching fencing would be a supplement that I always hoped I would have. I do not have the credentials or the money to get the credentials I would need to make a living off coaching. 

Sorry for the spelling. I usually do a better job of checking and I always have to have people look things over.

[hegemony]

My experience is that most undergraduates take a series of lower-level jobs when they first get out of college, feeling their way through the possibilities until they land on something that interests them and seems like a promising career path.  Trying out a career by getting a job in it -- where they pay you and not the other way around! -- is the best way to figure out if it suits you, much better than paying for a credential and possibly finding out later that you went into debt for something you don't even particularly like.  There are thousands of possible careers in the world, and most of them aren't even something you can predict while you're a college student.  And most skillsets are applicable to many different fields.  My advice is to think about the kinds of things you enjoy, for instance would it be solving problems, interacting with people, working outside, being in a new place each day, getting to know one kind of thing especially well, etc. etc.  Then think about what kind of industry might have jobs open and might be appealing -- corporate, retail, banking, insurance, automotive, marketing...?  Then start applying for jobs and see how it goes.  Don't feel you have to land on the perfect thing first time out.  Most of the students I advise go through around four jobs (all of them valuable experience) before hitting on something they want to stay in.

[lyndonparker]

+1. If at some point you desire to pursue graduate school, I would advise having really clear goals and aims. With whom do you wish to study? Why? If you know the answers to these two questions the rest becomes much clearer.

[zharkov]

 Finally I have a learning disability which my English adviser is pushing this year. It makes spelling difficult and editing work twice as long. It is clearly something that will affect me in grad school but no one seems to have an idea how much. I have my own ways of working around it but it is not going away any time soon.

I have worked with a number of students over the years, quite a few with learning disabilities, and the ones who have had good counseling, therapy, and treatment do pretty well.  Those who have not, not. So the absolute first thing you need to do is understand your learning disability and get whatever treatment you need. 

About career options, the market for history profs is as dismal as the market for English profs.  Whatever has been said about English, ditto for history.  But if the idea of teaching English or history appeals to you, then you might consider high school teaching.  While the rules for getting a HS teaching job vary by state, you should look into M.Ed. programs, which are required in some states, but strongly encouraged in general.  You will probably need to get a loan for the M.Ed., since they are not funded like PhD level grad school. But they are offered by my public universities and colleges at reasonable tuition rates.  Also, because state standards differ, it is a bit better to get that M.Ed. in the state where you hope to teach. 

[fencingturtle]

Thank you all. You have given me some things to think about. I plan to teach, no matter what. I have the best time with what little I do now. Plus, I have had too many professors tell me how much they enjoy it and how much they learn from their students. I want to be part of that. As for the learning disability, I have had coaching though, in my opinion, unsuccessful. I have some tricks but I need to be more careful.

[fourhats]

You should know that to many US institutions, a doctorate in the humanities from even Oxford or Cambridge is not seen as equivalent to one from a top American university.  Why? 

1. Because you often don't take classes, but essentially work on your own research throughout graduate school.  This means you miss much of the give and take of the graduate seminar, where your ideas are tested.

2.  Because you don't gain the teaching experience that is essential to success in the humanities in American institutions.

So there is the perception--right or wrong--that you don't come prepared to do the kind of work that American departments require.  The way to get around this is to find a way to do some teaching while abroad, or better still, follow the degree with a postdoc from a US university or SLAC.  And publish, of course.

[benchmark]

I know I need a good strong Phd and a lot of patients for getting a job.

What fourhats said. You are extremely unlikely to get teaching experience as a grad student in Europe, particularly a foreign grad student (not impossible but difficult). Another thing you won't get: opportunities to present at conferences.

The good thing is that you'll be finished with your degree much quicker, if that's any consolation. With no classes or teaching or conferencing or networking going on you just plug away at your thesis and finish it in three years. I know someone who did it in two and a half years (Cambridge, philosophy). It was a great thesis, prizewinning, published in leading peer-reviewed journal, and led to a career which is going stellar - so the quality was obviously good in case you're wondering.

The down side is, all that isolated introspection and locking yourself away with your books turns you into an antisocial and possibly neurotic person (even more than most grad students). I think the breadth of the American system goes a long way to help grad students stay sane. We're all just a little bit bonkers over here, I'm afraid, and I blame the intensity of grad school.

Of course, now somebody will pile in and say they had a great time at grad school in Europe doing teaching and conferences and meeting great people. Don't count on it - it isn't the norm.

Oh, you'll also be very very poor as a grad student here. On average academics in the US have more money than their European counterparts, and at grad school it's much worse. The good thing is, though, that there's a great welfare state so Big Brother provides you with free health care and easily available public transport so maybe it doesn't matter so much being skint. That will be fun for you if you like the idea of being looked after by the state. You don't get to choose your doctor or your treatment options but hey, at least it's free. Houses are tiny, but that doesn't matter coz you won't have any money to buy stuff with anyway.

Grad school in Europe is fun if you 1. have a lot of independent wealth and 2. are of a socialist bent.

[hegemony]

I am at a top British university right now (think Oxbridge), and the graduate students here are all presenting at conferences, and most of them are teaching.  I have to say that my own Oxbridge degree stood me in good stead when I was looking for a U.S. job (I was on twelve shortlists, got four campus visits, three offers).  Believe me, I am no superstar.  And I don't mean to brag -- just to say that students do get those opportunities at Oxbridge, and I certainly have seen no sign of discrimination against an Oxbridge degree.  You need to position yourself in the market, of course -- that's true with any degree.

[benchmark]

This must be discipline-specific. In my Oxbridge Phd group NOBODY ever presented at a conference. We did have some people teaching, but by no means most of us. More like two or three people out of, say, 15. I agree that the opportunities are there, and if you are pro-active in seeking them out you will find opportunities to do everything that's possible in the States. But you'd have to be a real dynamo and prepared to be deemed aggressive and pushy.

My sense about the States (from two sisters who did doctoral research there) is that you don't need to be unusually dynamic to get teaching and conference opportunities.

And I just thought of another disadvantage of the British PhD: here you get only one, or at most two, people to supervise your research. In the States you get an entire committee of people who will read your work and make comments and give advice. Having only one supervisor here, which is the norm, means you will really struggle to find three people to write references for you.

And another disadvantage: academics here will spend much less effort giving you any advice. My sisters' advisors still take an interest in their careers, introducing them to colleagues and just helping them get on their feet academically. It's not usual for a supervisor here to have anything to do with you other than commenting on your written work, much less help you with your job search. You are largely on your own. I've seen American students here suffer because they come off as needy, expecting a little bit of interest from their supervisor which in America would be the norm.

There you go OP: think very carefully before you leave.

[spider_jerusalem]

Agree with others - how about trying teaching at a private school? Some of the smaller, poorer parochial schools are desperate for teachers, and they often don't mind lack of an education degree. Being able to coach a sport and mentor students with learning disabilities may be big bonuses.

The very fact that you have talked about trying to get a PhD in two different possible disciplines means you're not suited for academic work, immaterial of everything else. A PhD is not a valid option for people who just like the humanities, are smart, and have some intellectual curiosity. Every single person I know like that who has tried academic work has crashed and burned.