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Author Topic: Off the Rails: Have I created a trainwreck?  (Read 5632 times)
xanthicsun
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« on: August 28, 2010, 01:54:41 PM »

My situation is probably impossible to strategize with any hope of a positive outcome, but I feel in desperate need for perspective.

My SO and I met in grad school, same department, same everything.  Our experiences have been different. Though my both of us  excelled, my SO remains ABD and feels a tad burnt out. On the other hand, I think I enjoyed the experience much more. The end result is that academia and an academic career has proven to be much more important to me than to my SO. 

Our dilemma is and has always been that when my SO and I married, it was my SO's second marriage. My SO has children from a previous marriage and considers our hometown as a permanent home until they are raised. This, of course, puts us at a distinct disadvantage on the job market. SO is content with non-academic employment; as for me, I'm much less so.

Two years ago I finished the program and limited the job search to local institutions.  There was some success in getting invites but no offers. Poverty and student loans breathing down our necks, we had a great deal of anxiety about the coming year.  We survived (barely) off adjunct gigs, but the experience was harrowing and led us to decide that I would apply nationwide.

The plan was for me to find something to provide us with enough money and wait for something local to materialize. 

Now, luckily, I've landed a TT job at a great institution that even allowed me to negotiate a large amount of time free of teaching duties for at least the first two years.  The commute, however, is incredibly long (read: un-drivable) and by plane.

Over the last six months its become quite clear that the anxiety that this long-distance relationship has caused my SO and, as by extension, myself is exceedingly high. And this before I have even left for the job. Just the mere mention of the job can send us into a torrent of arguments.

The main issue now is that my SO wants me to apply to jobs in a mere driving distance (6 hrs. away). I am reluctant to do so because neither of these are superior institutions (in terms of pay or prestige) nor solutions to our problem that we'd consider permanent.  I fear word will spread that I hop from university to university and poison my chances of being hired anywhere. I feel duplicitous enough using my current university as a way station given the generous offer that gave me when I was hired.

Are my concerns unfounded and should I just hold out and apply for the more permanent job?

Alas, am I destined to abandon my dreams altogether?
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au_fait
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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2010, 02:04:14 PM »

Wow, rough situation.

My suggestion. Evaluate how important this relationship is to you.

Keep really wonderful gig, suggest SO move to you & bring kids.
OR
Keep really wonderful gig and leave SO.

Wow, sounds harsh, right? Well consider the alternatives.
You leave really great gig, never get another really great gig, and for the rest of your life blame SO for making you give up your dreams. This blame turns to bitterness and one day you find yourself contemplating putting arsenic in SO's white powdered donuts. The road to bitterness is rough, as you're constantly fighting about having given up your dreams. You feel duped into believing that your SO could understand your passion and support you in your endeavors, since you did meet in graduate school.
Finally, bitter, constantly disappointed, feeling a chasm of what's unsaid between you (since it always results in a fight), you decide to leave SO. Now you have neither SO NOR the fabulous career you've worked so hard to achieve.

AGAIN I say:
Tell SO to MOVE and work it out w/ the kids, OR
Leave SO.

I wish it were easier, but it's not.
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duchess_of_malfi
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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2010, 02:11:18 PM »

Your SO plans to stay in the current town until the children are raised.  Does that mean until the children have graduated from high school?  Is this a preference or terms of a custody agreement?
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mouseman
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2010, 02:35:13 PM »


First of all, what Au-Fait wrote.  Second - by the time most people reach the end of their PhD, they fully understand that moving for jobs is the rule for an academic career.  So by doing a PhD (even if she/he didn't defend yet) and marrying somebody doing their PhD, your SO implicitly signed on to this life style.  Furthermore, you decided together that you should search for jobs nationwide.  However, it seems that your SO has decided that, since he/she has given up on her/his academic career, than you are obliged to do the same.  Your SO is now manipulating you to behave in a way that make life more convenient for her/him, but has serious implications for your career.  Moreover, she/he is using her/his kids as the main reason for his/her refusal to move.
I may be unduly harsh, but it seems to me that your SO is being manipulative, selfish, and unfair, and I second Au_Fait's recommendation:

Tell SO to MOVE and work it out w/ the kids, OR
Leave SO.

I am truly feel bad for you and your situation, and I wish for all the best for you.

On preview - good question, Duchess, but I think that, since the OP writes: 
My SO has children from a previous marriage and considers our hometown as a permanent home until they are raised.
it seems preference rather than legal requirement.
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octoprof
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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2010, 05:29:06 PM »

My situation is probably impossible to strategize with any hope of a positive outcome, but I feel in desperate need for perspective.

My SO and I met in grad school, same department, same everything.  Our experiences have been different. Though my both of us  excelled, my SO remains ABD and feels a tad burnt out. On the other hand, I think I enjoyed the experience much more. The end result is that academia and an academic career has proven to be much more important to me than to my SO. 

Our dilemma is and has always been that when my SO and I married, it was my SO's second marriage. My SO has children from a previous marriage and considers our hometown as a permanent home until they are raised. This, of course, puts us at a distinct disadvantage on the job market. SO is content with non-academic employment; as for me, I'm much less so.

This job market disadvantage was known to you and to SO. This wasn't thrust upon the two of you, it was a given.

Two years ago I finished the program and limited the job search to local institutions.  There was some success in getting invites but no offers. Poverty and student loans breathing down our necks, we had a great deal of anxiety about the coming year.  We survived (barely) off adjunct gigs, but the experience was harrowing and led us to decide that I would apply nationwide.

The plan was for me to find something to provide us with enough money and wait for something local to materialize. 

That sounds like a reasonable plan, under the circumstances.

Now, luckily, I've landed a TT job at a great institution that even allowed me to negotiate a large amount of time free of teaching duties for at least the first two years.  The commute, however, is incredibly long (read: un-drivable) and by plane.

Again, unfortunate, but not a surprise to you or SO, presumably.

Over the last six months its become quite clear that the anxiety that this long-distance relationship has caused my SO and, as by extension, myself is exceedingly high. And this before I have even left for the job. Just the mere mention of the job can send us into a torrent of arguments.

This is horrible to go through, I'm sure, but still, it's not an unpredictable result. :o(

The main issue now is that my SO wants me to apply to jobs in a mere driving distance (6 hrs. away). I am reluctant to do so because neither of these are superior institutions (in terms of pay or prestige) nor solutions to our problem that we'd consider permanent.  I fear word will spread that I hop from university to university and poison my chances of being hired anywhere. I feel duplicitous enough using my current university as a way station given the generous offer that gave me when I was hired.

Are my concerns unfounded and should I just hold out and apply for the more permanent job?

Alas, am I destined to abandon my dreams altogether?

So, why aren't you apply for jobs in driving distance? Wasn't that part of your plan, above?  Ie., take the job you can get, and then work towards a more local solution?

As mentioned on another thread (someone who wants to go on the market after a year to be slower to SO; sound familiar), going on the market after a year is understandable under these circumstances if going on the market is going to keep your family together.

You have to decide which is most important to you in the long run, your relationship with SO or your career. It's a horrible corner to get backed into, of course, but none of these circumstances seem surprising. You and SO knew about his prior family. You and SO knew it would be hard to live apart. You and SO agreed that you'd take the job and then look for something nearer.

Seems to me, your task now is to look for something nearer (wasn't that your plan, mentioned above?).

If not, then you are clearly going to make a choice for career over SO. I'm not judging you on that, just stating what it looks like here from hundreds or thousands of miles away and many years in experience farther down the road. Changing jobs is not going to destroy your career. That's not an issue here, really.  (says Octo who's moved around more than most and had no major issues with it - mostly moving up each time, but not always in the obvious way an outsider might think. It's about me (and spouse) being happy, not what the rest of the world will think).

Many years ago, I was in a similar situation, though not after one year TT, more like five, and my options were:
  • Keep the nice tenured job at which I'd published quite successfully and live thousands of miles from  spouse [no jobs were available near spouses new big $ gig).
  • Or, quit and become a housewife and live with SO (whom I'd been supporting for the past many years).
So, I have a little bitty idea of where you are coming from, if that helps at all. These were not the options we'd expected ex ante, for sure, but that's what they boiled down to. Spouse wouldn't take comparable jobs offered that were near my tenured position as he didn't like that part of the country anymore.

Pretty much the options are as au fait describes so much more ably that I am. You have a choice here, a difficult one, but a choice.

Good luck. I wish you the best, whatever that is for you.
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bluezebracat
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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2010, 11:31:24 AM »

I really, really feel sorry for you.  Good luck with figuring this out. 

I might suggest getting a marriage counselor involved.  I'm actually not a huge fan of rushing to therapy whenever any obstacle emerges, but in this case, it sounds like it might be a good idea to have a third party in the room while you each articulate what is important to you and how you can compromise with each other (stop devolving into shouting arguments).  Seems like there's some (understandable!) resentment bubbling at the corners here.  Also, it sounds like you've been less than forthcoming about how much you've embraced the academic TT way of life because you're worried about hurting SO's feelings, or making SO feel less than hu is.  Just a guess.

I wish au fait wasn't right but I think hu is.
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bookishone
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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2010, 11:38:20 AM »

I really, really feel sorry for you.  Good luck with figuring this out. 

I might suggest getting a marriage counselor involved.  I'm actually not a huge fan of rushing to therapy whenever any obstacle emerges, but in this case, it sounds like it might be a good idea to have a third party in the room while you each articulate what is important to you and how you can compromise with each other (stop devolving into shouting arguments).  Seems like there's some (understandable!) resentment bubbling at the corners here.  Also, it sounds like you've been less than forthcoming about how much you've embraced the academic TT way of life because you're worried about hurting SO's feelings, or making SO feel less than hu is.  Just a guess.

I wish au fait wasn't right but I think hu is.

Ideally a marriage counselor who has experience with academic culture and academic jobs. Because it's important that the counselor recognize what it would mean for you to give up the TT job. It's not like anyone can be certain that other good TT jobs will become available nearby over the next few years, let alone that you would necessarily be chosen.
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au_fait
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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2010, 02:13:01 PM »

I too wish I wasn't right, but Xanthicsun, I speak as one who has to live with my choices too.

I met my SO, who has two wonderful kids and an ex, and we fell for each other. We discussed the "job problem" and our ability to relocate if needed for my career. As my SO is at the top of hu's field, relocation was "not a problem." Hu's response to the "kid question" was that we would figure it out; perhaps keeping them over the summer and on holidays while the ex had them during the school year, or the opposite.

Flash forward two years later, I have relocated, giving up TT prospects (though ABD), and all we had discussed is now moot. 1. The ex is an idiot and unable to parent without guidance and the kids are still minors, 2. SO's income is significantly more than what I could make, and it's unlikely that SO could make the same amount in this economy if we relocated.

Will I still manage to find a teaching gig? There's a very good chance as I'm in "college country" (many opportunities), though perhaps not a TT. In roughly 10 years, kids will be in college anyway; however, tenure would be helpful in paying for their college! We've committed to continuously reevaluating what our prospects are and desire to make sure we are BOTH happy.

IF your ex can earn enough to enable you to live comfortably, IF you're still able to teach and can focus on publishing, IF you see an end in that "eventually" you'll be able to relocate for a TT and are willing to bet on the postponement, THEN ...

You see? We all make choices, as I'm sure you know. We evaluate the probable results of our choices and do the best we can. However, our choices don't lock us into any path. We can STILL reevaluate and make new choices. As Octoprof so clearly pointed out, you and your SO both KNEW what your path was when you first got together. Is it that things have changed so much or that what was not as important before is now terribly important? Is it that since you BOTH aren't as passionate about your careers, one of you must give up the dream? Is there selfishness that is overshadowing an otherwise amicable and mutually beneficial relationship?

It's a lot to evaluate. Academia will never "love you back" or care for you when you are sick. But regret, remorse, financial constraints, among other things will harm love, even turning it into bitterness.

So hopefully, my personal account will soften my first response to you; however, I stand by my post.

I don't believe in counseling for the most part, though I do believe in open, honest communication where you remind yourselves that you're on the same team, fighting for the same goal-- to be happy.
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bluezebracat
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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2010, 10:58:01 AM »

People, kids are flexible, way more than you.  Move them to another school.  It builds character.

As someone who grew up having a couple of different school moves, it was just fine.  And frankly, it made the later changes in life easier--college, graduate school, etc.  Kids just don't need to be coddled.  And what, does your SO like starvation or near-subsistence living?
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ahsonek
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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2010, 12:05:32 PM »

The kids can move - however, what about SO ex-spouse?

If SO and ex-spouse share custody - i.e. some sort of one week on, one week off, then having SO move to OP new hometown is not going to work.  No other parent would put their kids on a plane every other week just so their ex can be with their new spouse.

SO and ex-spouse would have to rework their custody agreement.

I have a friend who has a similar situation although neither he or the ex-wife are in academia.  The two alternate custody with a 3-3-2 rotation, 3 days with him, 3 days with her, 2 days with him, 3 days with her repeat.  It only works because 1 - both of them are invested in the kids, 2- they live within 1 mile of each other and 3 - they get along well enough to parent, and he gets along with her new husband.  However, it means that all three adults are stuck in this town (or have to agree to move together) to any new location to make the custody agreement work.  Our friend has turned down several jobs that involved relocation for that reason.

If SO has this type of agreement, then chances are, the ex-spouse can and will go back to court to get the agreement adjusted if SO moves.
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wildwest
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2010, 12:48:49 PM »

I wanted to present the SO's perspective . . . based on my own experience.

When I married my husband, I already had my humanities Ph.D. in hand and a great job (outside of academia per se, but within the education field).  He was just going off to grad school for his Ph.D.  I knew what I was signing up for--several years of grad school (in saturated and low-funded humanities field)and the accompanying financial sacrifices, and then the search for a TT job with the accompanying sacrifices of location and finances.

What you think/say you can do early on is not often how you feel after several years.  Grad school took longer than I expected--six years instead of four--during which time I was locked into a job I did not like in a small town with limited opportunities.  When it came time for the job search, I started to feel anxious and resentful.  Why do we have to live in town X, just because my husband will do anything for that coveted TT position?  What about quality of life issues?  This is my life too, location is extremely important to me, and now you want me to live in city X for the next thirty years of your tenured life?

So--I try to be very supportive, but it is hard.  We are living in a great location now with his first job.  But it is non-TT and the situation is problematic.  He is continually on the search for the elusive TT job.  So I live in constant anxiety of being dragged to a place I don't want to live.  I am almost forty.  I want to like the place where I am living and to put down roots.  I am definitely a bloom where planted" person . . . but . . .

And we don't have kids, so we don't even have that complication.
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wildwest
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2010, 12:59:05 PM »

I enjoyed reading au-fait's post.

There are so many things that my spouse could do that would allow us to choose our location--things that could blend teaching with technology, administration etc.--things that lead directly from his skills and experience.  However, he wants that coveted, traditional TT position with a focus on traditional teaching and research.  How do you stomp on someone's dream?  I don't want to do that.  On the other hand, I don't think grad students and their advisors are being completely honest--tenure is declining, jobs are limited, prospects are bleak.  I'm getting tired of the financial demands of academia that continue to put us into debt, from student loans to research trips (of course, no departments are funding anyone these days), to a major move to a new job that is not paid for by the university (it costs a good $4,000 or so for two adults to move their household across country, for pete's sake).

I guess what I am saying is:  when you start an endeavor like this (grad school, academic job), you never know how you are going to feel years later, or how life will develop.  You get to a point where your ability to be supportive dwindles.  Also, as a former academic now looking in from the outside, I can see the ridiculousness of all of this and wonder why spouse doesn't wake up.



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