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[a11ex]

I am about to enroll in a PhD program, where I've found an adviser who is great for what I want to do. The problem is that this U is ranked about 300 places below the other alternative. The best thing for me would be to go to the alternative U, but keep this adviser as a co-adviser or some other arrangement.

What do you think? Should I ask him for this option? If he can't do it, should I find a different adviser in the other U, despite having told him that I've made the decision to go with him (we already started working on the proposal)? I'm worried that this will burn the bridge to this adviser, and may hurt my chances to find a new one. Right now everything is set and I'm ready to go, it will be a nightmare to start admissions again, but I'm very uncomfortable knowing that this U is ranked so low.

Thanks for any ideas.

[merce]

Given the start of classes are upon us, this unfolding of events seems to be on a timeline I can't quite grasp.

Are you saying you were accepted at 2 places? You basically accepted -300 w/ good guy but want to go to +300 if you can and halfway trundle advisor you don't really even know yet along for the ride?

Is place -300 your previous institution and so it is just a move up within a program or institution you already know?

If you could provide a clearer timeframe (perhaps space frame as well-- would this involve moving cross-country next week? breaking contract with U and landlord etc.)

[totoro]

As I've said before, it really depends on your goals. If you are doing it for interest while continuing to work in IT then it really doesn't matter if this is your ideal adviser. If you are looking for a job in small country then everyone will know that you really worked with this guy and I don't think it will matter if you formally get your degree from one of the two top-ranked places. It's a small fishtank. I also said that if you get a degree from any of these U.'s your best chance is to get a job in small country. The chances of getting one in another country in your discipline/age anyway is low unless you have a PhD from one of the top schools in the US or UK.

[a11ex]

merce - lets ignore the timeline, its flexible. Yes to both questions.

totoro - Please, don't disclose any of the info I told you in PM, even if you think its harmless, thanks.

[kron3007]

I dont really have an answer for you, but I personally believe that at the graduate level the advisor is in many ways more important than the school.  You can do great things at a small school if you have a supportive advisor, likewise you can get the shaft in a reputable school if you end up with a bad one.  I dont know the specifics of your situation, and it sounds like a hard choice, but I would be tempted to go with the smaller school if you know the advisor would be good.

[tenured_feminist]

Advising graduate students is very labor intensive. At least in the US, one really only gets any kind of minimal credit for advising students at one's own institution. Advisees at other institutions are counted simply as a free choice to add to the moral good of the universe. So students who have committee members from outside their universities should be grateful, and if you actually have a co-advisor from outside, you are getting a lot of what is in effect free labor from the person. Many universities also have strict rules about not having advisors from other universities, probably for this reason (i.e., Francie Famous at Mediocre U shouldn't spend all of her time advising her grad school friends' students, leaving little time for Mediocre U students).

[a11ex]

So lets say my alternatives are (bad U with good A), or (good U with unknown A) + (maybe upsetting good A), what do you reckon I should do facing this dilemma?

[goaswerfraiejen]

You don't even know this adviser yet, though, do you? He/she might end up hating you anyway, dying, or moving elsewhere, and your interests may well change. And then you're stuck at a worse school with few good advisory options. As long as the better school has a decent set of potential advisers, I'd opt for it instead. Your adviser is going to have some influence on your work and your future, but most of the impetus is going to come from you. You can make do with a crappy adviser (by, say, getting a second one, or even someone from a distance), but you can't really make up for a crappy programme.

I wouldn't propose working with the good adviser from a distance until either

a.) I was further along in my research, or
b.) I knew him better personally.

Asking him/her to supervise from a distance and for another university is a big request, and not to be taken lightly.

[traductio]

Good advisers won't begrudge good students for attending a better program. If your adviser would begrudge you that, then you don't want that person as an adviser.

If good U is really good, there will be someone there who can advise you, although that's something you can verify by checking faculty webpages.

[bluezebracat]

I don't think this question would have been comprehensible without totoro's comments, actually. As hu noted, this probably depends on a) field b) where you want to work after all is said and done.

Advisors are professionals who are giving their time to advise a student.  They would be much more productive if they didn't have to advise any students, but this is part of their service to the field. If you haven't signed anything, you should be able to justify why you're going to +300 U (closer to family, better funding, etc.) with other reasons besides 'it's a better school than your horrible institution, Advisor A.'

Also, isn't there someone else you can work with if Advisor A decides to be a horrible person and tells you never to call hu again?  Find it difficult to believe that the field is that small if so many schools are in play.

[kron3007]

You can make do with a crappy adviser (by, say, getting a second one, or even someone from a distance), but you can't really make up for a crappy programme.

I have to disagree with this sentiment, your advisor has a huge impact on your graduate experience. They will decide how you spend much of your time, guide the design of your research project, allocate of grant money, and provide you with reference letters.  Your selection of advisor can follow (or haunt) you into your future when you are applying for postdocs and faculty positions.  One of my advisors once told me that you can get married as many times as you want, but you will only ever have one PhD advisor so choose well.

There are a lot of things to consider here:
1) Is the bad school bad, or just not as well known?
2) Is the ranking system you are using a general ranking, or specific to your field?
3) Depending on the country the program may be more important (US has a lot of course work and it may matter more)
4) Does the better school do research you are interested in, or is the other advisor doing a specific project that you like.  Personally, I always applied with specific profs on project that interested me, not to departments.

 

[kron3007]

Advisors are professionals who are giving their time to advise a student.  They would be much more productive if they didn't have to advise any students, but this is part of their service to the field.

I believe that in our school (in Canada) profs get teaching credits for advising graduate students.  I forget what our "value" is, but I think it does help reduce teaching load.

[polly_mer]

Advisors are professionals who are giving their time to advise a student.  They would be much more productive if they didn't have to advise any students, but this is part of their service to the field.

I believe that in our school (in Canada) profs get teaching credits for advising graduate students.  I forget what our "value" is, but I think it does help reduce teaching load.

It's not going to be enough.  Advising graduate students is great, but nothing I've seen in terms of offsets is anywhere close to what the true cost of advising students is.

OP, this thread coming on the heels of your last query raises some yellow flags. I don't think you know what you want.  I think you should defer for a semester and get your head together.

[anon99]

Advisors are professionals who are giving their time to advise a student.  They would be much more productive if they didn't have to advise any students, but this is part of their service to the field.

I believe that in our school (in Canada) profs get teaching credits for advising graduate students.  I forget what our "value" is, but I think it does help reduce teaching load.

Not at my university or any other Canadian university I've studies at/worked at.

[kron3007]

Advisors are professionals who are giving their time to advise a student.  They would be much more productive if they didn't have to advise any students, but this is part of their service to the field.

I believe that in our school (in Canada) profs get teaching credits for advising graduate students.  I forget what our "value" is, but I think it does help reduce teaching load.

Not at my university or any other Canadian university I've studies at/worked at.

I could be wrong, but that is what I was told.

Also, from my experience graduate student are the hands that do much of the research/lab work and significantly contribute to publications.  I find it a stretch to say that advisors are professionals who are giving their time to advise students, especially because it is part of their job description.