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[merce]

My guess is this is exactly how students think. Jim has gone through the effort to make an algorithm (good for him!) to see what happens when the pros and cons are given weighted values and synthesized.

So my question to y'all (and Jim if he's around & interested):

how can I make a policy that will ensure that my students do not ever end up with "it's ok to skip" when they think about the question  or use the calculator?

One of my courses that is standardized so all sections are equal assigns points for each day, no excuses. You just lose points even if you are in the hospital. But the points are minimal and are not a part of the other 15% of participation.
Talk about advanced math! Whoever did our attendance policy and entire syllabus was  a math whiz that I am not. I can never determine what I'm supposed to be giving students and won't really be able to adopt this plan for my own classes where I am free to do what I want with my syllabus.

[wakingtime]

I still cannot get used to the idea of college students "skipping" class--where I'm from "skipping" was for kids, high school students. Now I'm supposed to get used to "skippers"? I'm cringing.

Let's stop calling it skipping and call it what it is, idiocy. Filbert's site is full of ads, designed to make money. Not to amuse, not to help anybody.

[biop_grad]

Interesting concept ... and I use the first word advisedly.

Jim: I don't think your users - based on your quotes - are treating it as a humor tool.  There is no indication I can see that a college student would take it that way, and I certainly can't see that based on your site alone.

Sorry.

[jim281062]

Interesting concept ... and I use the first word advisedly.

Jim: I don't think your users - based on your quotes - are treating it as a humor tool.  There is no indication I can see that a college student would take it that way, and I certainly can't see that based on your site alone.

Sorry.

1. I feel like most of you are so offended by this that you cannot stop and look at it in the tone is was created for. THE biggest remark I get back is "this is funny". NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND would use this thing on a serious basis. NO ONE is going to actually base their decisions off this. If they do, they are idiots. 90% of the people that visit my site NEVER come back a second time. 97% of the people that visit my site NEVER come back a third time. This is a humorous joke and no one (except for guys) are actually taking it seriously.

I still cannot get used to the idea of college students "skipping" class--where I'm from "skipping" was for kids, high school students. Now I'm supposed to get used to "skippers"? I'm cringing.

Let's stop calling it skipping and call it what it is, idiocy. Filbert's site is full of ads, designed to make money. Not to amuse, not to help anybody.

2. I make about $1 a day in ad revenue. The purpose of the ads is to cover the price of my domain name and hosting so that I can at least break even and not have lost money. If I make a little extra, great, but this is not a money making idea.

I skipped my fair share of classes in college. I was perfectly satisfied with my GPA. I have been out of school for 3 months and already have an amazing job with an amazing team of people doing something I love with an amazing paycheck. I work in a field where your GPA doesn't mean s***. I didn't put it on my resume and my boss never even asked.

I'm not going to try to answer the question of why students feel the need to skip class. I can only answer from my experiences. In my mind, it takes A LOT more than simply mastering the material to even be considered to be a teacher. I already spent $150 on the textbook, why do I need to spend $2,000 more on another textbook that talks? I skipped class in college because I was wasting my time and money on something I didn't want to do. You can blame this on me all you want (maybe I should have tried harder in HS and gotten into a better school, maybe I should have picked different classes or a different program). The fact of the matter is, if I am not being inspired I am not interested. I can read the book on my own time, I don't need you standing there reading it to me. I had plenty of professors that I LOVED, even in topics I had no interest in - and I never skipped those classes because I was actually excited every morning to go to them.

I made this website because I thought it would be a funny idea. People come to it and think it is a funny idea -- and never come back again. If you think this is a mockery at the system of higher education -- you are absolutely right! If you were an inspiring enough prof then you wouldn't need to worry about s*** like this - because your students would be showing up every day.

[bioteacher]

In my mind, it takes A LOT more than simply mastering the material to even be considered to be a teacher. I already spent $150 on the textbook, why do I need to spend $2,000 more on another textbook that talks? I skipped class in college because I was wasting my time and money on something I didn't want to do.

Everyone here would absolutely agree that mastery of content is not the only thing a teacher needs to excel at.

If you paid tuition to attend college, that tuition was used towards the class. So by skipping class, you are not saving money. What you are doing, rather, is denying yourself the benefit of the money you already spent. That is your choice. Education is a partnership, and if a student is unwilling to be an active partner, then yes, they should stay home and free up professor to given time and energy to willing partners.

You are free to have any sort of website you want. But once the content is visible to the public, we are free to view it through the lenses of our experience and share our observations. You came to our playground and seem to be very upset by the view of professors who are jaded by years of snowflakes requesting special treatment. As a new visitor to the fora, you are approaching the topic from an entirely different perspective. This is the faculty playground. If you are uncomfortable with exposure to faculty perspectives, this is not the place for you. However, if you are willing to broaden your perspective a bit, you might find you learn a lot.

Some threads to give you the context from which we view your webpage:
http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,54950.0.html
http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,29894.0.html
http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,63477.0.html
http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,64803.0.html

Do we realize that these snowflakes are a small fraction of the student population? Absolutely. But that 10% cause 90% of our stress. We come here to vent, unload, and get advice from each other.

And those 10% DO skip class for any reason under the sun. And THEN they come to us demanding we give them extra chances to get that A they have to have. Those snowflakes will absolutely view your site literally. And then come complaining to us about the consequences of their choices. Is is any wonder, then, that we are suggesting a small humor disclaimer be added?

Are we offended by your site? Good heavens, no. We've got hides thicker than a rhinoceros. Do we see it as a potential problem for our snowflakes who are looking for justification to skip class? Yes, we do. And in that context, you bet we take it seriously. Why? Because we take our jobs as educators very seriously. The CHE is populated with good teachers. It's a self-selecting group. So please be careful not to paint us with the broad brush of mediocrity. We get cranky when people do that. And a cranky rhinoceros is a dangerous thing.

Bioteacher

[duchess_of_malfi]

The idea is funnier than the execution.  Adding humor or making it more useful, or both, would give people a reason to re-visit--if that is a goal. 

My students skip class for many reasons, and knowing what I know about what's going on in their lives, it would be a mistake for me to assume in any particular case that the reason is closely related to the class.  I record attendance for required student-aid purposes, but I don't count it toward the grade.  I don't think it is my role to determine the extent to which students forfeit some or all of the value of their tuition.    At a personal level, I care if students attend because I see students struggle and fail who don't need to, or who will face more competition in hiring and promotion than necessary because other students acquired more knowledge and skills during college.  But unless for some reason I work at a place that requires attendance to be graded, I prefer to let students make that decision. 

Some of my first-year students are there to please their parents and are not interested in or committed to following through with a degree.  That is a decision they have to make.  My upper-level classes are over-enrolled.  The fewer the students in the room and the more interested they are in being there, the more actively we can all be involved in the day's educational content.  As I tell students, I don't assume that everyone is aiming for an A or B.  But students need to understand that only about 20% of the class typically gets an A and it is necessary but not sufficient to attend class nearly every day in order to perform at that level; aiming for a C entails substantial risk; I can not make up lectures and discussion; and they are responsible for the entire course content and for remembering to take tests and hand in work, whether or not they read and attend.  A student who understands all that is not a problem for me.  (They might be a problem for themselves, but that's a different issue.)  A student who complains or threatens me because of an undesired outcome is a problem for me.  But I would be very surprised if this site affected student behavior and attitudes.

[cc_alan]

The idea is funnier than the execution.  Adding humor or making it more useful, or both, would give people a reason to re-visit--if that is a goal. 

That's a great idea. Stick pins both in students and professors but do it in a way that's *really* funny.

1. I feel like most of you are so offended by this that you cannot stop and look at it in the tone is was created for. THE biggest remark I get back is "this is funny". NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND would use this thing on a serious basis. NO ONE is going to actually base their decisions off this. If they do, they are idiots. 90% of the people that visit my site NEVER come back a second time. 97% of the people that visit my site NEVER come back a third time. This is a humorous joke and no one (except for guys) are actually taking it seriously.

More funny = more repeat visitors. More word-of-mouth. More ad revenue.

Bring on the funny!

And if anyone's wondering, I really am serious. I'm looking at both sides. Students who routinely skip classes should be ashamed of themselves. Professors who don't bring something extra to the class in addition to any assigned textbooks should be ashamed of themselves.

BRING ON THE FUNNY!

Alan

[polly_mer]

The idea is funnier than the execution.  Adding humor or making it more useful, or both, would give people a reason to re-visit--if that is a goal. 

That's a great idea. Stick pins both in students and professors but do it in a way that's *really* funny.

Agreed.

A skipping class calculator that asked about

• how much planning was necessary to go into tonight's party to make it awesome (a possible reason to skip an afternoon class)
• whether to leave a party still going strong at 0800 to make a 0900 class
• whether you could send your pet chihuahua in your stead with a videocamera strapped to his back
• whether you even still had a shot at an A or whether you were only risking the difference between a C and a C-
• how hot is the professor?
• how hot are you?  Might you increase your grade by sitting in the front room and flirting?
• how much extra credit can you get by sending a glittery "your the Best teacher and i Learne So much" card
• can you think of anything better to do or should you go to at least the 1000 class to waste time until the guys are free to go to the lake and skinny dip?
• are your parents going to freak if you have to take this class a third time or would they be cool with that 'cause everyone knows that chemistry is worthless in real life?
• can you consult the file from the frat and do just as well because the prof hasn't changed anything since 1985?
• can you be first in line for local auditions for America's Next Fussiest Eater if you skip classes today to drive to Big City?

would be hilarious.  I would probably point it out to my students.  However, as it stands, it's not funny, it's somewhat sad as a joke compared to the real logic that students have told me as justification and what I remember from my college days being a member of the non-serious student group.

[cc_alan]

The idea is funnier than the execution.  Adding humor or making it more useful, or both, would give people a reason to re-visit--if that is a goal. 

That's a great idea. Stick pins both in students and professors but do it in a way that's *really* funny.

Agreed.

A skipping class calculator that asked about

• how much planning was necessary to go into tonight's party to make it awesome (a possible reason to skip an afternoon class)
• whether to leave a party still going strong at 0800 to make a 0900 class
• whether you could send your pet chihuahua in your stead with a videocamera strapped to his back
• whether you even still had a shot at an A or whether you were only risking the difference between a C and a C-
• how hot is the professor?
• how hot are you?  Might you increase your grade by sitting in the front room and flirting?
• how much extra credit can you get by sending a glittery "your the Best teacher and i Learne So much" card
• can you think of anything better to do or should you go to at least the 1000 class to waste time until the guys are free to go to the lake and skinny dip?
• are your parents going to freak if you have to take this class a third time or would they be cool with that 'cause everyone knows that chemistry is worthless in real life?
• can you consult the file from the frat and do just as well because the prof hasn't changed anything since 1985?
• can you be first in line for local auditions for America's Next Fussiest Eater if you skip classes today to drive to Big City?

would be hilarious.  I would probably point it out to my students.  However, as it stands, it's not funny, it's somewhat sad as a joke compared to the real logic that students have told me as justification and what I remember from my college days being a member of the non-serious student group.

Jim needs to hire you.

I can only base my opinion on function and not on intent. The website appears to be a way for a student to find a little external validation as to whether he or she should skip.

"Geez... I really don't want to go to class today. <plugs in information> OK OK! I'll go!"

There was nothing funny in the response when I did it. I first tried to plug in that I had 0 missed days but it complained that I had to answer every question. So I changed it to 1 missed day and I was advised to go to class to protect my grade and I was reminded that I had an exam in a few days.

Nothing funny!

I'm serious, Jim. If you want the site to be funny, it isn't. Hire Polly as a consultant to bring the funny.

"Do you find it necessary to stick hot knitting needles into your eyes to stay awake while your professor drones on endlessly reading his/her PowerPoint slides to you."

The website gets an "F" for humor and "F" don't mean funny.

Alan

[polly_mer]

I can only base my opinion on function and not on intent. The website appears to be a way for a student to find a little external validation as to whether he or she should skip.

"Geez... I really don't want to go to class today. <plugs in information> OK OK! I'll go!"

There was nothing funny in the response when I did it. I first tried to plug in that I had 0 missed days but it complained that I had to answer every question. So I changed it to 1 missed day and I was advised to go to class to protect my grade and I was reminded that I had an exam in a few days.

Nothing funny!

Jim, if you are still reading, you could at least have gone for humorous responses.  I tried several times, but I didn't get anything like:

• Are you kidding?  Go to class right now and make plans to go to office hours to suck up for all you are worth and maybe you can still pull a B
• It might be ok just this once, but are you willing to take the risk that today is the day that the prof will give the answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything?
• Dude, do you want to fail?  Go to class!
• What would your mama say if she could see you even thinking about not going to class?
• Go ahead and skip.  You've already failed the class with 75% probability so you might as well enjoy the rest of your semester before the poo hits the fan

[melba_frilkins]

• Do you actually own a copy of the textbook? Will you read the section that you missed in class? Will you be able to figure out what that section is?

[voxprincipalis]

Hi,

I registered for the forum just so I can comment on this. Before you think this is a bad idea, the original intent behind the website is one of humor, and is not meant to be a serious tool. I would not advise someone to actually base their daily decisions to go to class off of these outcomes. One of the other purposes of the tool is to put things into perspective for the skipper (as in "I didn't realize my next test is only 10 days away" or "I already skipped 25% of this class"). This serves as a type of "checklist" for someone considering skipping.

So again, using this everyday and actually following the outcome blindly would be a terrible idea. It was designed for humor more than anything else.

And yes, the reviews are real - all except 1 are from people I don't know. (I'm sure the one that you pointed out is more of a joke than anything).

-Jim Filbert
Creator of the "Should I Skip Class Today?" Calculator.

Ohmygod, you cannot *possibly* be serious.

Let me propose some other calculators:
• Should I cheat on my girlfriend?
• With my professor?
• Should I stick my finger in this light socket?
• Should I come to class stoned? Drunk? Both?
• Should I plagiarize on this paper, figuring that my professor will be too dumb to figure it out?
• Should I stencil "Love You" on my eyelids in hopes of getting my professor's attention?
• Should I attend my professor's office hours wearing scanty lingerie?

I am simply stunned that you think students are smart enough not to take this seriously.

VP

[post_functional]

Welcome to the fora, Jim.  On the one hand, you're sort of brave to post under your real name; on the other hand, you are not an academic by profession so you don't have something to protect as regular forumites do.

I was perfectly satisfied with my GPA.

This is a crucial and obvious component missing from your algorithm: what is your goal for the class?  If you've got a C average and you're happy with a C, then, yeah, go ahead and skip class.  If you've got a C average and you want/need an A, then, for god sake, go to class.

I have been out of school for 3 months and already have an amazing job with an amazing team of people doing something I love with an amazing paycheck. I work in a field where your GPA doesn't mean s***. I didn't put it on my resume and my boss never even asked.

You're not going to find lots and lots of sympathy for the suggestion that because you found that there is little to no direct relationship between the academic mission and direct workplace hiring potential, it is therefore okay to skip class.  A lot of us don't think the academic mission is primarily workplace readiness anyway, but rather intellectual inquiry.  If you think the academic mission is workplace readiness, then, yeah, no wonder you skipped out.  I would too.  What a pedestrian and uninteresting pursuit that is, compared to intellectual inquiry.

I'm not going to try to answer the question of why students feel the need to skip class. I can only answer from my experiences. In my mind, it takes A LOT more than simply mastering the material to even be considered to be a teacher. I already spent $150 on the textbook, why do I need to spend $2,000 more on another textbook that talks?

Wow.  Two people on the fora in one day trying to usurp amnirov's proud title of WWJ (World's Worst Jerk).

I skipped class in college because I was wasting my time and money on something I didn't want to do.

Like think?

You can blame this on me all you want (maybe I should have tried harder in HS and gotten into a better school, maybe I should have picked different classes or a different program).

Careful.  You are dangerously flirting with the idea of taking responsibility for yourself and your choices.

The fact of the matter is, if I am not being inspired I am not interested. I can read the book on my own time, I don't need you standing there reading it to me. I had plenty of professors that I LOVED, even in topics I had no interest in - and I never skipped those classes because I was actually excited every morning to go to them.

The class you skipped was the one where the prof brought it all together.  It would have inspired you.  But you missed out.  Too bad.

I made this website because I thought it would be a funny idea. People come to it and think it is a funny idea -- and never come back again. If you think this is a mockery at the system of higher education -- you are absolutely right! If you were an inspiring enough prof then you wouldn't need to worry about s*** like this - because your students would be showing up every day.

I will concede that your web site is cute, approaching "funny" sort of asymptotically.  Your premise is absurd.  No professor can compete with the power of the orgasm.  If the choice for the student is between class in five minutes and orgasm in five minutes, orgasm wins.  Students skip class because they, like all human beings, have competing and conflicting priorities.  The relative capacity of a professor to inspire rarely comes into play in these evaluations.  Orgo or orgasm.  That's what it often boils down to for the student.

[dr_alcott]

Bravo, P_F!

No professor can compete with the power of the orgasm. 

Can I get that on a coffee mug, please? Can I put it in my attendance policy?

[post_functional]

By all means.