next »

[changinggears]

I received this email this morning from a student who is signed up for one of my fall classes.  S/he also wanted to know if I could provide a syllabus so s/he would have an idea of what they are getting themselves into because, and I quote, "I have a HEAVY course load and I am determined to graduate this December."  The reason I'm posting is because I have to share my amazement with someone.  Is this student being ballsy or have others had similar inquiries?  What would your reply be?

[mended_drum]

I've only had this kind of e-mail once or twice, but I have a standard reply:

"Thank you for contacting me.  I'm glad to see that you take your education seriously.  The course you're considering taking is aimed at X-level students with Y prerequisites.  Over the years, I have found that the grade distribution of my courses is very much like those of other professors in my department, falling neither at the upper or the lower end.  It is not possible, of course, to predict individual grades, and the amount of work necessary to accomplish a student's goals for the course varies.  The syllabus for this particular course will be available on X date."

I never respond to issues of workload, scholarship or gpa requirements, or my own reputation on RMP or elsewhere.  I find that responding professionally has the effect I want.  Students who are, essentially, begging to do little work for a good grade will not sign up for the course.  Students who are just having a stressful moment will often calm down, sign up for the course, and either drop it if the workload seems too great or be relieved to discover things are not as dire as they'd imagined.

Many students are now used to responding to stress by sending out a flurry of desperate e-mail messages; few understand how these sound to the recipients. 

[duchess_of_malfi]

I would say, "It's hard for me to know what academic workload you will be able to complete without knowing you, and I can not predict the likely grade of any student.  But you are welcome to look at a copy of last semester's syllabus, attached.  This semester's assignments (pp. X-Y) and grade distribution (p. Z) will be similar."

The email was rude, but the student doesn't know that and thinks she or he is just being direct.  I point out those sorts of things only if I know a student.

If a student has an overloaded fall schedule in order to graduate, I sympathize with the need to know about the courses in advance because there is no shopping around here.  I think of that as a different situation from a student who simply wants to do the least work possible.  We are so over-scheduled that once a student drops a course, the chances are very small that they will be able to add a course that meets their requirements. 

[larryc]

"You are right to be concerned. I take the education of my students seriously and as a result teach a demanding course that will require a heavy investment of your time and effort. It is up to you to decide if such a commitment on your part is consistent with your other obligations in the fall. Best of luck."

[fiona]

"You are right to be concerned. I take the education of my students seriously and as a result teach a demanding course that will require a heavy investment of your time and effort. It is up to you to decide if such a commitment on your part is consistent with your other obligations in the fall. Best of luck."

I answer in this vein. I don't want lazy grade grubbers, and the e-mail has given you the opportunity to politely weed them out.

The Fiona

[changinggears]

I couldn't help replying before I even read the responses.  It went something like this:
"RMP is not a reliable source of information about professors.  Some of my favorite professors probably received poor ratings on RMP.  But then again, I liked professors who challenged me to think critically and learn something new, rather than just coast my way through the course to an easy A.  Here is a rough outline of the reading and assignment schedule.  Hope it helps you make an informed decision.

[duchess_of_malfi]

The wording of the email will probably help the student make a decision, too.

[crowie]

CG, I know I am only responding to the limited view of you that I get from your anonymous online forum posts so you can take or leave this comment depending on whether it rings true to you or not, but since you recently admitted on your other thread about your son that you felt embarrassed about emailing too soon in that situation, it made me reflect on your actions here.  You first asked for advice and then went ahead and emailed a reply anyway.  It's not that I think that your reply to the student was a disaster, I think it was probably fine--though I do think some of the suggestions on the thread might have been better--less defensive, less focused on RMP.  But this pattern leads me to suggest that you may want to reflect on why you feel the need to reply/rebut the person with whom you are having a conflict ASAP, even after you've made the effort to ask others for suggestions on what they would do first.  It sounds like you have trouble "sitting with" and coping with anxiety/conflict/anger and you feel like you need to "resolve" the issue one way or another as quickly as possible--even if that method of resolution might not be the optimal one.  Just a thought.

[luvstowrite]

"You are right to be concerned. I take the education of my students seriously and as a result teach a demanding course that will require a heavy investment of your time and effort. It is up to you to decide if such a commitment on your part is consistent with your other obligations in the fall. Best of luck."

I answer in this vein. I don't want lazy grade grubbers, and the e-mail has given you the opportunity to politely weed them out.

The Fiona

I liked this response too.

[mountainguy]

Although I would have taken a different approach with the student, I don't think that Changinggear's reply was necessarily unprofessional. I would have attached a copy of the syllabus for the student, or alternatively, let the student know when I expected to have the syllabus done so that he/she could make an informed decision about the class.

[conjugate]

Perhaps you should say something like, "Well, I'm always pleased to find that my students say that after my course, the living envy the dead, and I think I've found the way to maximize that response.  So you should take my course.  You might be in an enviable position."

Okay, don't.  I like LarryC's response, myself.  Mended_drum's response has the virtue of being defensible if anyone asks later—it is professional, businesslike, and to the point.  I could see some administrators disapproving of LarryC's e-mail.

[changinggears]

CG, I know I am only responding to the limited view of you that I get from your anonymous online forum posts so you can take or leave this comment depending on whether it rings true to you or not, but since you recently admitted on your other thread about your son that you felt embarrassed about emailing too soon in that situation, it made me reflect on your actions here.  You first asked for advice and then went ahead and emailed a reply anyway.  It's not that I think that your reply to the student was a disaster, I think it was probably fine--though I do think some of the suggestions on the thread might have been better--less defensive, less focused on RMP.  But this pattern leads me to suggest that you may want to reflect on why you feel the need to reply/rebut the person with whom you are having a conflict ASAP, even after you've made the effort to ask others for suggestions on what they would do first.  It sounds like you have trouble "sitting with" and coping with anxiety/conflict/anger and you feel like you need to "resolve" the issue one way or another as quickly as possible--even if that method of resolution might not be the optimal one.  Just a thought.

Perhaps I should have worded my follow-up post differently.  What I meant by "couldn't help" was that the student wanted to know whether or not s/he should drop the class before preregistration ended today.  So, a quick response was requested and a quick response was given.  If my reply seemed snarky to you, then you read it correctly.  I am not fond of being asked by students to defend myself against biased opinions posted on a notoriously irrelevant and unreliable website and my objective was to make my point in as professional a manner as possible.  I don't feel the need to walk around on eggshells around students (parents who could make my son's life less pleasant are another story).  I posted about the incident because I found it so surprising and, as I noted in my post, wondered if anyone else had experienced a similar situation.  My primary reason for posting was not to get advice on how to respond.  Everyone (including me) is entitled to their thoughts.  Thanks for expressing concern.

Although I would have taken a different approach with the student, I don't think that Changinggear's reply was necessarily unprofessional. I would have attached a copy of the syllabus for the student, or alternatively, let the student know when I expected to have the syllabus done so that he/she could make an informed decision about the class.

I did give the student a calendar of reading requirements and major assignments.  I understand the fact that when you are nearing graduation and have an overloaded schedule, a little wiggle room can be a relief and knowing what you're in for can help you determine if you have that wiggle room or not.  I just don't think the student went about their request in a very effective manner.

[rdnttkn]

I posted about the incident because I found it so surprising and, as I noted in my post, wondered if anyone else had experienced a similar situation.

I'm surprised the student brought it up, and no, I've never experienced this.  Then again, I have the good fortune of never having been put up on RMP (knock on wood).  ;P

I will admit that I have visited the site and poked around.  What I noticed from the colleagues of mine past and present that I did see, was exactly what one might expect going to such a site, namely this:

RMP is not a reliable source of information about professors.  Some of my favorite professors probably received poor ratings on RMP.  But then again, I liked professors who challenged me to think critically and learn something new, rather than just coast my way through the course to an easy A.

The site essentially a tool for lackluster students to "shop" for the easy profs.  And the chili pepper thing?   I think RMP is the perfect example of why student evals are generally more or less worthless.

[fancypants]

When I tell my students that some professors have been known to leave feedback for themselves and their friends on RMP, or even to create and rate fake professors on RMP for laughs, they are always aghast that it's not the rock-solid evaluation tool that they think it is.

[tee_bee]

I haven't ego-browsed RMP since I got to Current Land Grant U. and will not. Does anyone ever post anything positive there? I got tired of reading about my teaching style, expectations, girth, fashion sense, etc. (I am trying to do something about the latter two, but the former two ain't gonna change soon.)

I do get requests in advance for syllabi, which I usually take as a sign of preparedness--unless the request comes with a lot of whining.