next »

[mountainguy]

A student who is compliant and generally cooperative in my class is being a little sh*t in my colleague's class (juvenile behaviors like eye-rolling, sighing, note-passing, snarky comments like "who care?"). My colleague is more than capable of dealing with her, but it raises some interesting questions. The other instructor I aren't that different in terms of teaching style or structure. In fact, we regularly share teaching ideas with one another. I can only conclude that something about the content of the other class or the instructor's interpersonal demeanor is setting the student off.

How common do you think these situations are??? Are "problem students" sometimes no big deal for other instructors?? Why??

[bud04]

Is your colleague a woman? A young woman?

[concordancia]

Yes, I find there are different kinds of problem students - I have one colleague in particular with whom we are at cross purposes with defining problem students. She likes the quiet ones who just get good grades, I like those who vocalize good ideas and and even a little humor. Since she lectures a lot, she can easily shut down the belligerent (plus, she is 20 years my senior and looks a bit severe, so they are less likely to start something). Since I encourage discussion and questions, I have to derail the belligerent in other ways. But because I let them release some kinds of energy in class, there are a few students who everyone else whines about that really flourish in my classes. And a whole bunch of A students who flounder in my classes because I am more interested in ideas than memorized answers.

And then there are the students that we all consider problem students, generally whining and clueless.

[oldfullprof]

I'm with Concordancia.  I do well with jerks-- my kind of people.  I often like the energy they bring to a class room.  For me, the trick is to involve the quiet ones.

[menelatar]

How common is this? Hard to say.

I have only had two instances of this. The first about 5 years ago when I was an adjunct at a state university. The class was a required freshman course held in a large lecture hall (150 students).

I had these yahoos in back who would just not shut up. I eventually decided to use peer pressure. When they began to jabber, I just stopped lecturing. I told the class that I would say nothing while the "talkers" were being disruptive....That did not really work. Luckily, the yahoos all failed the midterm and were never seen again.

A more severe problem was encountered a year ago with an athlete at a smaller university with a class cap of 20 students. Again, required freshman class.

This guy acted like the person described by the OP. At the midterm, the athlete could not answer any of the questions because hu did not take notes and had missed 8 class sessions. The student included a note in the bluebook telling me how important he was and how I was going to pass him because of his importance. I was vaguely amused. The next class session he was horrifically disruptive. After class I suddenly realized that with his 8 absences, per my syllabus, I could drop him.

I did. He is no longer at this school.

Because of him, I include in my syllabus that if a student is disruptive I will ask them once to settle down. Second offense I will eject hu from the class and drop them from the course.

I think these kind of disruptions are more and more common. I consider disruptive students people who are damaging the learning process of other students and that cannot be tolerated.

[polly_mer]

I think it's fairly common because I was that kind of student (yeah, yeah, I know.  I'm somewhat better now.)

What would set me off would be a combination of content and demeanor.  Someone who doesn't gear the class at the level I wanted while going through things that I found either blindingly obvious or trivial detail irritates me beyond belief.  You required me to pay and attend this class because it's good for my general education.  What the hell am I getting out of this class?  Teach me something worth knowing already that I can't get from reading the book or somewhere outside of class!  If that instructor also appeared weak, then the juvenile behaviors would come out to try to influence the class the way I wanted it to go or at least render retaliation (if I'm not getting anything from this class and am irritated, the instructor better shape up or be equally irritated).

[littlefred]

I have had this more than once... in both directions.

The 2 most memorable were:

the older, returning student who LOVED me (still does, I see her occasionally at the 'local club' and we share drinks and stories. In the first week of an anatomy class, she asked me about how a doctor would suspect a brain tumor from looking at a tongue (its not midline when you stick it out). I answered her, and turns out, her husband had recently had that happen! She made him go his GP for constant headaches, and as soon as he stuck his tongue out, the MD ended the exam and sent him to the ER. She had not understood at the time, so was thrilled to learn that. She thought I was cool after that!

My chair taught the second portion of the class (A&PII)... and she HATED being challenged or questioned in any way. This student was not happy with her at ALL. (I don't blame her, I hated her too)

The second was the little snot who was a B*&^% in my class but (the same) chair loved her. .. she tried to get me fired. But, since I document, document document everything, it was the chair's a$$ that got it, not me. I actually quit over that one.

[mountainguy]

Interesting perspectives, everyone.

To answer Bud04's question, yes, the other instructor is a woman. The student is female is female as well. I usually do better with the quieter students than the loudmouths, which is why it's interesting to me that the student is being obnoxious in the other instructor's class but not in mine.

[ranganathan]

Don't discount the role of the other students in the class.  It's not uncommon for me to see the same student multiple times in different library workshops with different professors. Sometimes a student who is a positive, energetic presence in one class will act completely different in another class because his or her friends are there and the student wants to project the same 'too cool for school' attitude.  It's often worst when the student is trying to impress a potential romantic interest. 

[lizzy]

Don't discount the role of the other students in the class.  It's not uncommon for me to see the same student multiple times in different library workshops with different professors. Sometimes a student who is a positive, energetic presence in one class will act completely different in another class because his or her friends are there and the student wants to project the same 'too cool for school' attitude.  It's often worst when the student is trying to impress a potential romantic interest. 

Yes, and sometimes just a different group dynamic will bring something out in a student that she's not showing in another class. Also, there might be some quirk of personality, teaching style, or even appearance that is pushing some button in the student.

[changinggears]

I'm with Concordancia.  I do well with jerks-- my kind of people.  I often like the energy they bring to a class room.  For me, the trick is to involve the quiet ones.

I found a trick somewhere for evening out the discussion between the conversation butterflies and the wallflowers.  All students start the class with three cards that have question/comment written on them.  During the class, each time the student asks a question or makes a comment, they have to give you one of their cards.  Once they're out of cards, any questions/comments have to be addressed directly to you after class/during office hours.  If the butterflies run out of cards and the discussion begins to falter, you can call on one of the students who still has cards.  I haven't tried it, but it sounds like an interesting strategy to try.  It's supposed to also encourage students to really evaluate the importance and value of their question/comment before blurting it out, since they only get three.

I think it's fairly common because I was that kind of student (yeah, yeah, I know.  I'm somewhat better now.)

What would set me off would be a combination of content and demeanor.  Someone who doesn't gear the class at the level I wanted while going through things that I found either blindingly obvious or trivial detail irritates me beyond belief.  You required me to pay and attend this class because it's good for my general education.  What the hell am I getting out of this class?  Teach me something worth knowing already that I can't get from reading the book or somewhere outside of class!  If that instructor also appeared weak, then the juvenile behaviors would come out to try to influence the class the way I wanted it to go or at least render retaliation (if I'm not getting anything from this class and am irritated, the instructor better shape up or be equally irritated).

I have to admit that, like polly_mer, I could also be a problem student for professors who didn't meet my standards.  I was in the Honors program and felt that classes listed within such a program should be stimulating and challenging, not 1 1/2 hours of listening to some monotone old geezer read from his 20 year-old manuscript.  That was when I was a feisty undergraduate.  I calmed down in grad. school, but then again, all of the classes challenged me, so I didn't have a reason to revolt.

[spyzowin]

I'm with Concordancia.  I do well with jerks-- my kind of people.  I often like the energy they bring to a class room.  For me, the trick is to involve the quiet ones.

Me too. I love jerks. They tend to do better than the wallflowers if you can get them to work.

[mended_drum]

The rare students I have problems with are those with absolutely no sense of humor.  They are the intensely serious ones who border on the obsessive when it comes to grades or schedules, and they tend to be rather inflexible.  Some of these are fine if my colleagues' courses, but I really have to struggle to conceal my exasperation with them, and if I let my annoyance show, then they can become problems.  Give me the crazy slacker students over those who chase me down the hall objecting because I gave the class an extra day to do an assignment any day.

I'm getting better at handling them, though. 

[mountainguy]

Give me the crazy slacker students over those who chase me down the hall objecting because I gave the class an extra day to do an assignment any day.

Yikes. I've had maybe 2 or 3 of these students in five years of teaching and they made my skin crawl.

[polly_mer]

Give me the crazy slacker students over those who chase me down the hall objecting because I gave the class an extra day to do an assignment any day.

Yikes. I've had maybe 2 or 3 of these students in five years of teaching and they made my skin crawl.

Wusses.  I usually have several of those students in each of my science for teachers classes.