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[field_mouse]

lightningstrike, you must be in the humanities.  Where I come from, the only boast worth making is how many of your lab hours were represented in that Nature paper.

Actually, that makes me wonder if the valence of "working class" is entirely different in humanities vs. sciences.  Hmm.

[euro_trash]

A round of vodka for everyone on me.

[wet_blanket]

Not having a TV is the new calling card of the snobby intellectual upper class wannabe. At an academic party, using the "I don't own a TV" sneer/comment, declare that you don't follow North American football, and equating American beer with p**s water ... 

Really?  I'm in trouble.  I don't need a TV because almost every show is available online, with fewer commercials.  And that way I can watch half a season in one sitting, creating the illusion of more time and not having to wait impatiently for a week.  I've been raised on other sports than North American Football, but the same is true of volleyball and athletics; I didn't know there was a value statement in liking some sports over others.  Not all American beer is p**s water, but I haven't yet found the circumstances in which a Budweiser is enjoyable.  Of course, I'm not really a beer person in general which probably puts me in a different class of snobbery.

Anyway, this is revealing.  If *my* actions so clearly label me as a snob without my knowledge and certainly without even the tiniest bit of intent, then maybe the snobbishness and privilege I see in others' actions and statements is more about what I see than the actions/statements themselves.

[lightningstrike]

Not having a TV is the new calling card of the snobby intellectual upper class wannabe. At an academic party, using the "I don't own a TV" sneer/comment, declare that you don't follow North American football, and equating American beer with p**s water ... 

Really?  I'm in trouble.  I don't need a TV because almost every show is available online, with fewer commercials.  And that way I can watch half a season in one sitting, creating the illusion of more time and not having to wait impatiently for a week.  I've been raised on other sports than North American Football, but the same is true of volleyball and athletics; I didn't know there was a value statement in liking some sports over others.  Not all American beer is p**s water, but I haven't yet found the circumstances in which a Budweiser is enjoyable.  Of course, I'm not really a beer person in general which probably puts me in a different class of snobbery.

Anyway, this is revealing.  If *my* actions so clearly label me as a snob without my knowledge and certainly without even the tiniest bit of intent, then maybe the snobbishness and privilege I see in others' actions and statements is more about what I see than the actions/statements themselves.

No, you are not in trouble, and it doesn't reveal anything. What it does reveal is that in this particular instance I'm really bad at sarcasm and/or you are really bad at seeing it.

[petedondriac]

I had a though a while back that in a land of immigrants like North America, it typically takes 3 generations to produce an academician. This does not apply to wealthy immigrants, of course, but to immigrants who come to the new land with few resources, looking for a brighter future. He/she will work hard, often in manual labour, and encourage his/her children to get an education in something practical: business, accounting, engineering, nursing, architecture, perhaps even law or medicine for the really ambitious. The next generation of children will grow in relative comfort  and only then will some of them get the crazy idea to try to make a living out of studying medieval literature, astrophysics or fluid dynamics.

Most children of "working class" families are too practical to choose esoteric professions in academia, but sometimes, some of them jump a generation.

[zharkov]

I had a though a while back that in a land of immigrants like North America, it typically takes 3 generations to produce an academician. This does not apply to wealthy immigrants, of course, but to immigrants who come to the new land with few resources, looking for a brighter future. He/she will work hard, often in manual labour, and encourage his/her children to get an education in something practical: business, accounting, engineering, nursing, architecture, perhaps even law or medicine for the really ambitious. The next generation of children will grow in relative comfort  and only then will some of them get the crazy idea to try to make a living out of studying medieval literature, astrophysics or fluid dynamics.

Most children of "working class" families are too practical to choose esoteric professions in academia, but sometimes, some of them jump a generation.

I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.   

--- John Adams

PS:  Adam's great-grandson, the historian Henry Adams, was the author of Mont Saint Michel and Chartres, so it looks like his descendents did indeed get to study art and architecture.

[totoro]

I had a though a while back that in a land of immigrants like North America, it typically takes 3 generations to produce an academician. This does not apply to wealthy immigrants, of course, but to immigrants who come to the new land with few resources, looking for a brighter future. He/she will work hard, often in manual labour, and encourage his/her children to get an education in something practical: business, accounting, engineering, nursing, architecture, perhaps even law or medicine for the really ambitious. The next generation of children will grow in relative comfort  and only then will some of them get the crazy idea to try to make a living out of studying medieval literature, astrophysics or fluid dynamics.

Most children of "working class" families are too practical to choose esoteric professions in academia, but sometimes, some of them jump a generation.

Of course, the easiest way to immigrate legally to the US as the first member of your family with little financial resources, nowadays, is as a graduate student. Of course, you have to come from a country where you can go far in your education without coming from a wealthy background. And fluid dynamics can be pretty practical.

[petedondriac]

APllied fluid dynamics , better known as plumbing.

[scampster]

APllied fluid dynamics , better known as plumbing.

Or, you know, engineering.

[mended_drum]

I had a though a while back that in a land of immigrants like North America, it typically takes 3 generations to produce an academician. This does not apply to wealthy immigrants, of course, but to immigrants who come to the new land with few resources, looking for a brighter future. He/she will work hard, often in manual labour, and encourage his/her children to get an education in something practical: business, accounting, engineering, nursing, architecture, perhaps even law or medicine for the really ambitious. The next generation of children will grow in relative comfort  and only then will some of them get the crazy idea to try to make a living out of studying medieval literature, astrophysics or fluid dynamics.

Most children of "working class" families are too practical to choose esoteric professions in academia, but sometimes, some of them jump a generation.

In my family, it took four generations, but the previous three were all manual laborers, before the sudden appearance of yours truly who is treated with wary, though genuine, affection. 

[tijuanafina]

I'm so glad to have found this thread.  I've been managing my working class issues somehow for the eight years of grad school I've found myself in.  Something a few have alluded to, but which also really drives the isolation factor home is my family.  I've never really been close to them (think Jerry Springer x1000 - is that show still on btw?) but when I talk to them I just feel farther and farther away.  They absolutely have no idea what I do or why.  I try to assure them that I "teach" and therefore have a job, and am writing a "book," but they are all waiting for me to become Donald Trump or Stephen King when I graduate, because I've been in school so long.

Add to this the general makeup of my cohort, and yes the faculty at my school, and it is very isolating, or can feel like it, most of the time.  Some of this seems to be insecurity on my own part, and recently I've been not hiding my roots and drawing attention to them and even making fun of it, though it feels like the laughter I hear from others about it isn't "with" me ultimately.

Thanks for posting this.  Someone said something like "how can you know everyone you work with and their backgrounds?" - yes this is true, but then again, sometimes you can know, sometimes it's true. 

I've found a good friend from a similar background at my program, it's a great feeling, we feel like spies in the castle a bit.  And from reading the stuff here, I see that I'm not as alone as I think.  Thanks so much for posting. 

[bevo98]

Greetings all!  First, I was probably on the edge between working class and lower middle-raised by a divorced mom who taught first grade.  We lived in an apartment most of my life, I attended public schools, dropped out of high school and so on.  Then, on top of that, I spent years as a bartender before entering academia.  Like many of you, I just never related too well to the other grad students, especially the whiny privileged ones who thought they were geniuses.  I did get support from home although once I entered my doctorate program my family was proud but not sure what I was doing.  Fast forward many, many years...I still struggle with relating to many of my colleagues who were born with either silver spoons in their mouths or at least good teeth.  They constantly complain about their jobs for life and I am just not there.  I do love some of the esoteric stuff, but I also really enjoy my interactions with my students, especially first generation ones who come from many different backgrounds.  They are reason enough to do this.

[itried]

bevo98, I have a similar background: my mom raised my brother and me on a high school education, and I worked through all three of my degrees with minimal emotional or moral (and no financial) support. I'm finding that I can see entitlement in my colleagues when they complain about little things; for example, one of my friends in the same field at a different uni expects things to be handed to him. If he interviews for a job, or puts in for a teaching gig and doesn't get it, he is really miffed and confused, as if, "But why didn't I get that? I should have." When we were both on the job market at the same time, he implied that I landed my current TT job because I'm female (he was having trouble getting offers). He grew up in Cupertino, CA, and now that I know more about Cupertino, I can see how it affected him. I really think that socio-economic class does come between us sometimes... we just don't seem to have the same expectations of the world. I definitely see him as entitled and arrogant sometimes, and maybe he sees me as a bit unrefined and not as smart somehow.

I have been amused and annoyed at the assumptions people make about me -- and the disbelief in their voices when I reveal my true background -- based solely upon my physical appearance and current professional position. I'm tall and blond and seem fairly together professionally, so people assume things about me that aren't true. If they knew about my messy personal life, they may be less inclined to dismiss the reality of my upbringing.

[mweval]

The sad part is, ideally, education is supposed to "level the playing field."  Ideally, in academe, it's supposed to be about what you know and what you do, not who you are (or were).  Unfortunately, it has been my experience that the ranks in some academic departments can be pretty tight and snobby and take themselves (and where they are without thinking so much about where they've been) much too seriously. 
I hope you find kindred spirits among your colleagues....

[bash217]

I'm so glad to have found this thread.  I've been managing my working class issues somehow for the eight years of grad school I've found myself in.  Something a few have alluded to, but which also really drives the isolation factor home is my family.  I've never really been close to them (think Jerry Springer x1000 - is that show still on btw?) but when I talk to them I just feel farther and farther away.  They absolutely have no idea what I do or why.  I try to assure them that I "teach" and therefore have a job, and am writing a "book," but they are all waiting for me to become Donald Trump or Stephen King when I graduate, because I've been in school so long.

Add to this the general makeup of my cohort, and yes the faculty at my school, and it is very isolating, or can feel like it, most of the time.  Some of this seems to be insecurity on my own part, and recently I've been not hiding my roots and drawing attention to them and even making fun of it, though it feels like the laughter I hear from others about it isn't "with" me ultimately.

Thanks for posting this.  Someone said something like "how can you know everyone you work with and their backgrounds?" - yes this is true, but then again, sometimes you can know, sometimes it's true. 

I've found a good friend from a similar background at my program, it's a great feeling, we feel like spies in the castle a bit.  And from reading the stuff here, I see that I'm not as alone as I think.  Thanks so much for posting. 

I'm with you here. And it's not just in the academy. The generational part of it is also troubling for me in this economy. For instance, I notice that a lot of older people (both inside/outside academia) regard my student loan debt as either (a) a poor life choice akin to credit card debt or (b) something I'll get over in a few years if I can just stop my b*tching about it, because they all took student loans and had no problem paying them back, in a different economy, when school was much less expensive. It's a rough time to have "invested" (or so it seemed at the time, when everyone at my undergrad encouraged me...) for a high-caliber advanced education and now try and enjoy the fruits of my labor.

Today we live in the Middle East in a city where the quality of life is quite high, because that's where there was a job, and moving into our parents' houses with two PhDs was the only other immediate option. We have varying degrees of success explaining this choice to the Jerry-Springeresque members of our families. And now some people are coming out of the wood work treating us like the rich relatives! When we have more student loan debt than the value of a house! Over time we have found the alienation from our families to be worse than the irritation of our colleagues, but the combination can really be upsetting sometimes.