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[the_walrus]

I've searched and not found anything (but apologies if I missed something).  Anyone know how hiring is done in Spain?  I don't think I've ever seen a permanent post internationally advertised in my field.  Where are the job ads?

[the_walrus]

Okay, sorry, there is indeed something in this thread:

http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,69269.0.html

particularly this:

in some countries the system is quite endogamous (like Spain where you have to wade through notices in provincial public record bulletins, i.e. if you're not connected to another person in the institution offering the job, you're unlikely to learn about it).

I know there's pages like academicjobseu.com and career.edu, or initiatives like academic transfer that haven't quite caught up.

The Spanish system you describe sounds similar to the systems in many Latin American countries. Making it almost feasible (but still tedious by US standards), the convocatorias are now posted online by most universities.

and this:

Speaking of which, here's a link to Spain, though it's mixed up in a general public employment basket: http://oposiciones.universia.es/

Here's another interesting website where the academic structure of most European countries:

http://www.eui.eu/ProgrammesAndFellowships/AcademicCareersObservatory/AcademicCareersbyCountry/Index.aspx

So, I guess the advice is to look in these places, and also make friends with other academics in Spain and hope that they'll tip me off to particular jobs that I might not otherwise see?  Is that the collective advice of the fora for job-searching in Spain (and apparently France)?

[the_walrus]

This link:

http://www.eui.eu/ProgrammesAndFellowships/AcademicCareersObservatory/AcademicCareersbyCountry/Spain.aspx#GrossSalaries

is very helpful, if bleak.  It reports high teaching load, low pay, no sabbaticals.  Perhaps best to stay put in the UK and take more holidays abroad...  Does anyone have a sense for whether the above is accurate?

[frenchdoctor]

I can talk only for France but (unless you're a superstar) here, yes. Recruitment is a two-faced process :

a) an excruciatingly long and kafkaesque bureaucratic marathon, that can take several years to complete, since you must be "qualified" by a state commission even before you're allowed to look for a job. And then, looking for the job itself is also a long and complicated process.

b) a lot of (unofficial) networking, to make contacts, to make people know your name, to gain the support of the right academic "church," be invited to publish, etc.

France has exactly the same issues than all other academic systems : job shortage, insane over-supply  of degrees, ludicrous grade inflation. It means that search committees simply can't base their decision on the CV, since nearly everyone around here has a "stellar" one. Most of us are "straight A" students. In my field, French lit, Paris-IV Sorbonne, for example, has roughly 60% of "straight A" PhD students (ie, Phds with the max grade). It means the official CVs are laughable pieces of baloney, and that you need a strong unofficial CV. Ie : be known by the bigwigs, so to make them sure that you are the real thing.

In other words, this situation didn't arise because we are naturally evil and prone to maffia behaviour. It is the result of the grade inflation vicious circle, and years and years of academic demagogy.

(In spite of the thread title, I'm only talking about France here).    

[qrypt]

I had a nibble from a Spanish institution a few years back.  I was responding to an ad published in the normal channels for my discipline (thus not a matter of institution-specific hunting on my part).  So, possibly there is a bit more openness to non-nationals and a willingness to look outside of networks, considering CVs on their merits (I certainly had no networks in Spain). 

I declined to pursue things with them, because the pay was appallingly low and the teaching load high.  But it's all relative -- if things in the UK really go down the tubes in the next couple of years, then the opportunity I might have passed up in Spain might look pretty good in retrospect. 

[spaniard_76]

My two Euro cents regarding the job market in Spain.

Bright spots:
- Business schools: Some of them world class and most range from good to excellent, job candidates are considered on merit rather than connections, many if not most courses are taught in English, and they are open to hire social sciences PhDs from disciplines other than business studies
- Madrid Institute for Advanced Studies (social sciences): http://www.socialsciences.imdea.org/
- Fundación Juan March (social sciences): http://www.march.es/ceacs/ingles/ceacs.asp
- Instituto Barcelona de Estudios Internacionales (international politics): http://www.ibei.org/web_new/eng/home.asp

Worth considering:
- Private universities: they are moneymaking machines, only students unable to get into public universities go there, and salaries are very poor, but they are open to hire PhDs from other universities and countries, mainly because they do not have their own PhD programmes or they are realistic about the poor quality of these

Don't bother:
- Public universities: They only hire candidates who got their PhD in the same department/university or who have the right connections and who have slaved as lowly-paid, incredibly overworked teaching assistants for a few years, your contract makes clear that you are there to teach and not to research (i.e., you are a glorified high school teacher), and funding for conferences ranges from pitiful to nonexistent; the few candidates from non-Spanish universities you may find normally did their undergraduate studies at the same university they are working at and then slaved for the right professor while completing their postgraduate studies overseas

[the_walrus]

Thanks for these thoughts.  Doesn't sound terribly encouraging, at least for my social science discipline...

[embitteredhistorian]

This link:

http://www.eui.eu/ProgrammesAndFellowships/AcademicCareersObservatory/AcademicCareersbyCountry/Spain.aspx#GrossSalaries

is very helpful, if bleak.  It reports high teaching load, low pay, no sabbaticals.  Perhaps best to stay put in the UK and take more holidays abroad...  Does anyone have a sense for whether the above is accurate?

I almost choked when I saw those salaries. An assistant professor in South Korea almost pays twice of a full professor in Spain (with a much lower tax rate). However, these salaries are from 2003. I'm also concerned about:

Internal Recruitment

Although no exact numbers are available, it is generally stated that in Spain mobility between institutions is very low. It is not uncommon for academics to stay in the university where they studied and to retire from the same place.

Spain is gorgeous and the weather is nice...but it's not that nice.

[the_walrus]

Spain is gorgeous and the weather is nice...but it's not that nice.

That's what I'm thinking.  And probably not even nice if you can only afford to live on a park bench (well, maybe...)

[qrypt]

Spain is gorgeous and the weather is nice...but it's not that nice.

That's what I'm thinking.  And probably not even nice if you can only afford to live on a park bench (well, maybe...)

Well, let's keep some perspective here.  A salary of €30k doesn't look so great when you translate it to US$, but it's still a decent salary by Spanish standards -- you won't find yourself choking on envy of the cashiers at grocery stores etc.  It's possible to live on it -- many people live on significantly less.

[the_walrus]

you won't find yourself choking on envy of the cashiers at grocery stores etc.

Not necessarily true.  While they make less, they also don't have the debt that I have as a consequence of my fancy US-based education...  I suppose I could flake on making those payments (and payments on other debt accumulated while studying in the US), but I find that unappealing for a number of reasons.

[pedanterast]

I spent several months living in Spain earlier this year and I found the cost of living comparable to or lower than in the US.  Overall I would prefer to live in Spain.  I was pretty comfortable living on $2,250 US per month or about 1625 Euros at the exchange rate at the time (but more like 1800 euros now).  Also, the average quality of many things is higher in Spain than in the US:  food and beverages, public transportation, and commercial sex being some examples.  My rent was 465 Euros including all utilities (but there was no telephone in the apartment).  But that is $2,250 US after tax (since I wasn't paying any) and I don't know what 30k Euros pre-tax would translate to after tax.  I suspect not much.  Also I was on the Costa del Sol in the off-season and with the economic problems in Spain the rents were pretty depressed.

Importantly, I have been to 30 countries and lived in 7 and the food in Spain is the best by a fairly wide margin.  I would recommend a "Triple A" diet:  avocados, artichokes, and asparagus.  All are cheap and plentiful.  Orange juice is about a euro a liter so drink up!

[embitteredhistorian]

I spent several months living in Spain earlier this year and I found the cost of living comparable to or lower than in the US.  Overall I would prefer to live in Spain.  I was pretty comfortable living on $2,250 US per month or about 1625 Euros at the exchange rate at the time (but more like 1800 euros now).  Also, the average quality of many things is higher in Spain than in the US:  food and beverages, public transportation, and commercial sex being some examples. 

I never knew American commercial sex was of such poor quality.

[spaniard_76]

Spain is gorgeous and the weather is nice...but it's not that nice.

That's what I'm thinking.  And probably not even nice if you can only afford to live on a park bench (well, maybe...)

Well, let's keep some perspective here.  A salary of €30k doesn't look so great when you translate it to US$, but it's still a decent salary by Spanish standards -- you won't find yourself choking on envy of the cashiers at grocery stores etc.  It's possible to live on it -- many people live on significantly less.

A salary of €30k is fine, and quite good by Spanish standards, but not great. Note, for example, that IBEI offers this salary to postdocs, whilst Juan March pays €42k to junior researchers. So €30k is not a great salary by any means. You will make more than around 60% of Spanish workers, but you won't be able to support your spouse and two kids, for example.

With regards to research expectations, there is basically none at Spanish universities. So if you enjoy teaching but don't want to go beyond that, then Spain is the place for you. If you want to be an active researcher, attend conferences, and be involved in policy debates, then don't expect any kind of support from university managers or colleagues.

[pedanterast]

I spent several months living in Spain earlier this year and I found the cost of living comparable to or lower than in the US.  Overall I would prefer to live in Spain.  I was pretty comfortable living on $2,250 US per month or about 1625 Euros at the exchange rate at the time (but more like 1800 euros now).  Also, the average quality of many things is higher in Spain than in the US:  food and beverages, public transportation, and commercial sex being some examples. 

I never knew American commercial sex was of such poor quality.

Yes, it's really quite hideous, to say nothing of illegal and thus dangerous.  However I would say the best commercial sex is found in South America.