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[yellow_dog]

As Associate Dean I find it extremely difficult to get things done or to get critical University answers when it involves someone with a title larger than mine.

For instance when I call the VP of Admissions with challenging questions he will call my Dean instead of returning my call and discuss my questions with him. When I call a Dean of another college for information they generally find a way to discuss it with my Dean rather than me. I run into this over and over again with few exceptions.

I find this very frustrating as it adds so much time and effort to most actions and it clouds up the lines of communication.

I am not sure if this is just our University culture or if this something that is the norm everywhere.

[georgiaprof]

As someone with a larger title, I can explain some of what may be going on here.  At my current institution, we do not have this "problem" - that is to say that people here do not feel bound to the traditional chain of command.  I find this to be frustrating on many occasions - not because I am a big fan of the chain, but rather because I don't like being/feeling left out of the loop.  This isn't about title snobbery for me.  It is very frustrating when I am in a meeting with my boss and a project or situation is mentioned that I know nothing about but that was begun by people I supervise talking to my boss or people in other chains without letting me know even what was being discussed.  It is important in my role that I know what is going on in my area.  As a courtesy to my colleagues in other chains, I copy them on every conversation I have (at least initially) with someone in their chain.  Just like I don't like being blindsided in meetings, I don't want my colleagues to be blindsided either.  Always remember, I can't support you if I don't know what you are doing. 

[stitch]

As someone with a larger title, I can explain some of what may be going on here.  At my current institution, we do not have this "problem" - that is to say that people here do not feel bound to the traditional chain of command.  I find this to be frustrating on many occasions - not because I am a big fan of the chain, but rather because I don't like being/feeling left out of the loop.  This isn't about title snobbery for me.  It is very frustrating when I am in a meeting with my boss and a project or situation is mentioned that I know nothing about but that was begun by people I supervise talking to my boss or people in other chains without letting me know even what was being discussed.  It is important in my role that I know what is going on in my area.  As a courtesy to my colleagues in other chains, I copy them on every conversation I have (at least initially) with someone in their chain.  Just like I don't like being blindsided in meetings, I don't want my colleagues to be blindsided either.  Always remember, I can't support you if I don't know what you are doing. 

I think GP has hit it on the head.  It's important to copy the intervening members of the organizational structure.  Also, where appropriate, make a point to say, 'Dean Joe assigned me this project and suggested I talk to you about X,' or some similar statement making it clear that the intervening rungs are aware of what you are doing.   

You also want to be sure you aren't asking others questions that your Dean or another intervening rung could have answered.  You don't want your boss getting complaints about you wasting their time with questions the boss was told about at last week's boss' meeting.

It's not about a power trip, it's about respect and efficiency.

[august_leo]

GeorgiaProf, it sounds like you and Yellow_Dog (OP) are having the same problem:

In both cases people are going to "the boss" (you mention your boss, YD mentions his/her Dean) and skipping people (you, yellow_dog) that they should be talking to.

It does sound like a waste of time. Imagine you ask me (TT faculty member) about setting up a panel on teaching study abroad students. You spend 30minutes emailing me and a few others, thinking about the panel, what you want it to be for, another 30min talking to Anne to set up a room. Then, I go and call/email the Dean to say yes, I think such a panel would be a good idea, but should we do it during international student orientation. Then, the Dean contacts Sally about international student orientation (+45 minutes). Then, the next week, you go to your meeting planning to talk about your idea and find out that Sally over in international student affairs has moved this to September and Bob is organizing a room, etc. How annoying! Either you wasted an hour or the Dean wasted 45mins. Plus, either Anne or Bob wasted their time doing the same thing.

On preview: copying others would have helped in this scenerio if the Dean or I had copied GP/YD

[science_expat]

For instance when I call the VP of Admissions with challenging questions he will call my Dean instead of returning my call and discuss my questions with him. When I call a Dean of another college for information they generally find a way to discuss it with my Dean rather than me. I run into this over and over again with few exceptions.

OP, are they going to your Dean because you seem to be acting above your station? If this is a possibility, and you have your boss' consent, perhaps just mentioning that "Dean Smith suggested I contact you about..." would solve the problem.

[yellow_dog]

It's important to copy the intervening members of the organizational structure.  Also, where appropriate, make a point to say, 'Dean Joe assigned me this project and suggested I talk to you about X,' or some similar statement making it clear that the intervening rungs are aware of what you are doing.

I'd rather not communicate sensitive or long winded requests via email and I can't copy people on voice messages but I always do make it a point of starting with 'Dean xxx asked me to....' and still run into having many people reach back to the Dean rather than work with me.

I do understand that is important to keep the Dean in the loop so he isn't blindsided but that is what our regularly scheduled meetings are for.

My issue isn't with my Dean but with people outside our office and their need to talk to the Dean about everything rather than trusting that are others are capable.
 

[august_leo]

I always do make it a point of starting with 'Dean xxx asked me to....' and still run into having many people reach back to the Dean rather than work with me.

Hm. Maybe they think they are being efficient by just going to Dean xxx, then? I wonder if you tried "In the dean's office, we would like to know..."

Is Dean xxx just super popular and well liked?

[georgiaprof]

YD -
Are these situations where you have let your dean know in advance of what you are doing- or are these cases where you have taken initiative to start a new project.  If the latter, then I agree with science_expat that they may be going to your dean because they feel that you are acting "above your station".  A conversation with your dean about this general issue may help to clarify.  

[justanotherucprof]

In my organization, a direct call from a staff person in the dean's office to another dean would almost never happen, though direct staff-to-staff calls are more common (e.g., assistant dean in one unit to assistant dean in another).  Direct emails are less rare, but at least initially any particular email conversation would cc all intervening boxes on the org chart.  If there is a concern about email confidentiality, then there might be an initial email from the staff member to the dean (with cc to the intervening dean) that says "I'd like to give you a call to talk about a confidential matter."  That at least clarifies that nobody is being kept inappropriately out of the loop.

The reverse is of course also true -- it is rarely appropriate for a dean to directly reach down into another dean's organization to make a request unless it is on a routine matter (e.g., the undergraduate dean contacting an assistant dean for updates on course capacities).  What the original poster considers to be inefficient snobbery and disrespect sounds to me like good management practice and respect for the OP's boss.

[london1]

I am reminded of the old saying about Boston: "Where the Lowells speak only to Cabots
And the Cabots speak only to God."

What the OP mentions could be title snobbery or it could be professional respect for peers (deans want to make sure they don't "go over the head" of a fellow dean by responding to a request from an associate dean from another college).  Sometimes it might be the former and sometimes the latter.  At any rate, administrators have to get used to this and work with it. 

The advice about prefacing your call or email with "my dean has has asked me to...." is good advice.  If that fails, you might well be dealing with title snobbery.  In that case, you will want to develop a good working relationship with that person's associate and assistant deans.

[kedves]

Why are you calling VPs and deans?

[yellow_dog]

Why are you calling VPs and deans?

Usually to compare and contrast the weather against the Farmers Almanac or to discuss the Dodger's chances this year. Couldn't resist. :)

Seriously, for University business which my Dean asked me to work on for him.

[kedves]

Why are you calling VPs and deans?

Usually to compare and contrast the weather against the Farmers Almanac or to discuss the Dodger's chances this year. Couldn't resist. :)

Seriously, for University business which my Dean asked me to work on for him.

Ha!  What I was thinking is, would it be more efficient in the long run to go to people at the associate dean level first, adding the extra layer there instead of at your end?  Or is it too sensitive or urgent for that?  I don't know; I'm only thinking of alternative strategies because what you really want, a call returned directly, seems not to happen.

[new_bus_prof]

You need to specifically mention you've been put in charge of handling it. Try things like...
 I've been asked to spearhead this project by Dean X ...
 Dean X asked me to handle this on his/her behalf ...
 This is Assoc Dean of College, Dean X asked me to speak with you about project.
 
Also, have a frank discussion with your Dean.
 "Yes, VP. I asked Assoc Dean to handle this/that. Have you spoken with him/her?"
If your Dean isn't saying things like this, then you're Dean is also not relinquishing the power back to you.

If you're saying, I'm calling on behalf of Dean X; then you're nothing more than a messenger.

[renji]

It sounds like your Dean is undermining you.

If he wasn't, when the VP of admissions called, he would mention that you are heading up that project and transfer them to you.