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[candide69]

Having recently visited a graduate student conference at a school from which I'd received an offer, I have to ask: What are these people doing? I was confounded by the blithe fatalism and self-depreciation that characterized most of the grad students. One presented a short paper on the many crises facing doctoral candidates and professional academics in the humanities, and the conference room took on the atmosphere of a sinking ship. Another in the cohort asked, "Could you go over those statistics again?" And yet it didn't seem clear to anyone that the best option might be exiting the profession.

I've been sitting on the fence regarding an offer from a pretty good school (different from above) with a pretty good program and a pretty good funding package, but everything I've heard about the state of the profession is really scaring me away from accepting. I've had professors tell me I could do well in academe, and don't get me wrong, I love the idea of funded higher education and specialized knowledge and am at least interested in the idea of professional scholarship, though not passionately committed to it at this point. I just don't want to end up wandering through academe like a modern-day Candide, muttering to myself, "This must surely not be the best of all possible professions."

I hope I don't come across as trollish. I guess my question is, is everyone who goes into the humanities or promotes them as a wise career path a Panglossian optimist? Or is all the doomsaying just an elaborate test of character? To make sure we're on the same page, I'm talking specifically about graduate study in English. (Also, I'm not trying to tout my literary deftness...I just read Candide for the first time recently is all...)

[voxprincipalis]

Er, have you read any of the threads in the Grad-School Life forum about "should I go to graduate school"?

That will pretty much answer your question, I think.

VP

[embitteredhistorian]

Having recently visited a graduate student conference at a school from which I'd received an offer, I have to ask: What are these people doing? I was confounded by the blithe fatalism and self-depreciation that characterized most of the grad students. One presented a short paper on the many crises facing doctoral candidates and professional academics in the humanities, and the conference room took on the atmosphere of a sinking ship. Another in the cohort asked, "Could you go over those statistics again?" And yet it didn't seem clear to anyone that the best option might be exiting the profession.

I've been sitting on the fence regarding an offer from a pretty good school (different from above) with a pretty good program and a pretty good funding package, but everything I've heard about the state of the profession is really scaring me away from accepting. I've had professors tell me I could do well in academe, and don't get me wrong, I love the idea of funded higher education and specialized knowledge and am at least interested in the idea of professional scholarship, though not passionately committed to it at this point. I just don't want to end up wandering through academe like a modern-day Candide, muttering to myself, "This must surely not be the best of all possible professions."

I hope I don't come across as trollish. I guess my question is, is everyone who goes into the humanities or promotes them as a wise career path a Panglossian optimist? Or is all the doomsaying just an elaborate test of character? To make sure we're on the same page, I'm talking specifically about graduate study in English. (Also, I'm not trying to tout my literary deftness...I just read Candide for the first time recently is all...)

What VP said.

The temptation to have intellectual freedom is truly intoxicating, which is why so many grad students are throwing the dice. That and they're terrified of the "real world", however they define the term.

Anyway, if you don't have the time to read the other threads, let me summarize: Don't go to grad school in the humanities.

[dr_prephd]

Or, don't go to grad. school in the humanities if you will eventually need to support yourself.

I did my undergrad in English and was *this close* to doing my master's (and probably a PhD). I mean, the applications were in, I was accepted, and the plan was in motion.

Then I decided I wanted more for myself than being the most highly-educated waitress in the restaurant.

I chose a field with more employment opportunity. No, it's not my first or most passionate love. But, I'm good at it and interested in it, and I can find work almost anywhere. Health insurance is my friend, as is a retirement account and a savings account (and enough money to buy things and take vacations and go out to dinner when I want). Call me materialistic, but I don't have a trust fund to fall back on.

[egilson]

I hope I don't come across as trollish.

Yep, coming across like you're asking a question that has been asked in exactly the same way multiple times before just in order to cause knees to jerk all across the forum would be a bad thing.

[candide69]

Sorry. You're right, guys. I probably shouldn't have posted. It's just that having an actual offer on the table has made me anxious. I have read through other threads on the forum, many of them actually, over and over again. Perhaps it's clear that my anxieties would prevent me from thriving in a grad program, or that I am just not dedicated enough to be in it or the long run. I've also read Semenza's book, and while he is realistic about job opportunities, he portrays the profession in a more hopeful light. It's like night and day reading that book and the stuff written for the Chronicle. I think the differing advice is what is causing me to be so unsettled.

[dellaroux]

How extensive is the financial support they're offering?

Can you picture yourself doing anything else at all with your life?

What does the balance sheet look like when you weigh the pro's and con's (like literally, with a T-chart and pluses and minuses and all)?


If you've done all the 'required' reading of threads and are still puzzled, it's not trollish, it's just human, to try to see if there is anything in your situation that makes a difference in the wisdom for this decision you're confronting.

Your humility before the facts is refreshing, in fact.

[embitteredhistorian]

Sorry. You're right, guys. I probably shouldn't have posted. It's just that having an actual offer on the table has made me anxious. I have read through other threads on the forum, many of them actually, over and over again. Perhaps it's clear that my anxieties would prevent me from thriving in a grad program, or that I am just not dedicated enough to be in it or the long run. I've also read Semenza's book, and while he is realistic about job opportunities, he portrays the profession in a more hopeful light. It's like night and day reading that book and the stuff written for the Chronicle. I think the differing advice is what is causing me to be so unsettled.

No need to apologize--I think only a deficit of empathy would cause someone to attack you. I am unfamiliar with Semenza's book, but when was it written? Things went very sour very fast in 2008, and sadly recoveries take a lot longer than crashes. I doubt many expect humanities job openings to get back to pre-crisis levels for a decade.

If you decide to do the Ph.D., do not expect to get a job in academia, even an adjunct professorship at a CC with a 5/5 load. You also need to realize that it will severely limit your employability more than it will create new opportunities. You need to be fully aware of the consequences before pursuing the degree.

[prufrock]

I'm not sure that someone who "promotes [the humanities] as a wise career path" is best thought of as "a Panglossian optimist."  "Evil", "astonishingly ill-informed", or "irresponsible" seem more appropriate.  Still, if it's paid for, and you're interested, why not give it a try, especially if you go in with your eyes open?

I'm not sure that "Don't go to grad school in the humanities" is good general advice, but "Don't pay for grad school in the humanities" probably is.

Just my two cents...

[glowdart]

Well, one of the problems, I think, is that a lot of grad students DO dismiss the rest of all of possible worlds and consider a 2/2 load at an R1 to be the only possible world, often at the behest of their faculty, and that then sometimes leaves them bitter and unemployed.

[sugaree]

Well, one of the problems, I think, is that a lot of grad students DO dismiss the rest of all of possible worlds and consider a 2/2 load at an R1 to be the only possible world, often at the behest of their faculty, and that then sometimes leaves them bitter and unemployed.

Yeah, I don't know anyone like this anymore nor have I for the past decade. If there are STILL delusional humanities grads out there, I have no idea where they're coming from. The publicity on these pages has reached a fevered pitch of late, but it's hardly new. Or maybe I just went to a particularly insightful and realistic program filled with newer professors who knew the realities of the situation better than others?

OP, if you're eyes are open to the realities of a dismal future with slim-to-none chances of making it out then that's all you can do. If you're not passionate and you're scared about the prospects, that's probably an indicator that academia isn't for you. OTOH, if your program is funded you could try things out and always leave in a year or two if it doesn't work out (no, there is no shame in that). But also keep in mind that, in addition to the dismal TT job prospects in English, grad school takes a long time and even if you aren't accruing debt during this time (and depending upon how generous your funding is this is often not possible), you also aren't saving for retirement, you may not be able to get and/or pay toward a mortgage (and thus are building no equity) and you're putting off a number of "life things" that friends your age will be pursuing. That can be tough, especially if you are uncertain about the field to begin with.

Grad school can be really really fun (or really really miserable, depending upon your attitude), the job market is beyond brutal and will remain so for many years, and change is scary. Do with this what you will.

[embitteredhistorian]

Well, one of the problems, I think, is that a lot of grad students DO dismiss the rest of all of possible worlds and consider a 2/2 load at an R1 to be the only possible world, often at the behest of their faculty, and that then sometimes leaves them bitter and unemployed.

Yeah, I don't know anyone like this anymore nor have I for the past decade. If there are STILL delusional humanities grads out there, I have no idea where they're coming from. The publicity on these pages has reached a fevered pitch of late, but it's hardly new. Or maybe I just went to a particularly insightful and realistic program filled with newer professors who knew the realities of the situation better than others?

OP, if you're eyes are open to the realities of a dismal future with slim-to-none chances of making it out then that's all you can do. If you're not passionate and you're scared about the prospects, that's probably an indicator that academia isn't for you. OTOH, if your program is funded you could try things out and always leave in a year or two if it doesn't work out (no, there is no shame in that). But also keep in mind that, in addition to the dismal TT job prospects in English, grad school takes a long time and even if you aren't accruing debt during this time (and depending upon how generous your funding is this is often not possible), you also aren't saving for retirement, you may not be able to get and/or pay toward a mortgage (and thus are building no equity) and you're putting off a number of "life things" that friends your age will be pursuing. That can be tough, especially if you are uncertain about the field to begin with.

Grad school can be really really fun (or really really miserable, depending upon your attitude), the job market is beyond brutal and will remain so for many years, and change is scary. Do with this what you will.

I agree with all of this, but I also want to point out that grad school can be miserable for other reasons, such as a psychotic thesis advisor, crushing poverty, alienation from undergrads and faculty, and a lack of camaraderie with  fellow postgrads. I'm not saying all of these apply to ever Ph.D. experience, but they're certainly not uncommon.

I foolishly went into my Ph.D. thinking that it would be just like my B.A., only better. They're different animals entirely.

[dr_prephd]

you're putting off a number of "life things" that friends your age will be pursuing

This is very important to consider. The last year of my master's program, I only made about $5,000. Thank goodness I lived with my spouse, who paid the rent, but it still only left me about $400 a month for everything else... and most of that went to transportation. It really sucked to have to say "no" to social events because I couldn't afford them. Not that "keeping up with the Joneses" should make or break your decision to go to grad. school, but if it will be a major lifestyle change, it's worth thinking about how you will react in those types of situations. In retrospect, I guess I could have made more friends in my department who were also broke, but that wasn't how I rolled at the time. The funny thing is that now, I've actually got a decent-paying job and it's my friends who are back in grad. school and broke. I think I'm more sensitive to their condition having been through it myself... I offer up things like cooking dinner at my place instead of going out.

[conjugate]

Well, it's tough to say without knowing the specifics.  But if you can get grad school funded (as you suggest) then it may not be too big a deal.  Try it for a couple of years, keeping your eyes on the market, and taking enough courses that you will be an attractive candidate for some alternate profession (if possible). 

My sister has only a Bachelor's with a double major in Spanish and Philosophy, and she makes more than I do.  She has never had too much trouble finding a job or keeping it for years, either. 

I wish you all the best, and who knows?  You may find your ideal Cunegonde in grad school (and not even have to worry about being expelled by many kicks in the backside).

[glowdart]

Well, one of the problems, I think, is that a lot of grad students DO dismiss the rest of all of possible worlds and consider a 2/2 load at an R1 to be the only possible world, often at the behest of their faculty, and that then sometimes leaves them bitter and unemployed.

Yeah, I don't know anyone like this anymore nor have I for the past decade. If there are STILL delusional humanities grads out there, I have no idea where they're coming from. The publicity on these pages has reached a fevered pitch of late, but it's hardly new. Or maybe I just went to a particularly insightful and realistic program filled with newer professors who knew the realities of the situation better than others?

Our discipline still has a good population of delusional people, based on conversations that I see on the wiki and hear at annual conferences.  There are some realistic people, but there's more than enough deluded dreamers to go around.