next »

[rowan1]

Do any of you have a student you just don't like? On a fundamental level, not because they are a flake or a slacker, but because they are just a fairly unpleasant person?

I have a student who has been making my life hell for the better part of the year (and honestly a bit of last year).

She is a bully, a whiner, and completely incapable of taking responsibility for her own actions in any way.  I have got to figure out how to disengage from her game playing; tricky in my area since we work so closely with the students.  And she will, most likely, be elected President of the student organization I am faculty adviser for next year.  She is the current VP so I have to work with her already.  I have her in class now and will have her again next fall.  I am making sure that I don't let my dislike of her influence me in terms of the classroom, I am proably going in the other direction on that just to be sure.  I can't get a way from her but I figure I can disengage - I just can't figure out how. 

I know that I will never, ever, ever, cast her in a show - she is undirectable and brings so much negativity to rehearsals that it is just not worth it. 

In a way it is sad, her game playing and politicking with the students have resulted in her giving up on a project for next year that she would be very good as the director for but she would much rather play the martyr.  She is not headed toward a life of success in this field, that is for sure.

She actually has made the comment that she won't take an extra role in a film, she will only take a speaking part - good luck with that sweetie.

[oldfullprof]

I had a fat, sanctimonious male-b___h as a grad student.  Last college, not this one.  He was the pet of two other professors (tenured) who I believe were trying to set me up.  I was untenured.  The guy was always trying to trip me up in class and was conniving and unpleasant.  He was the chief spy for our weasel chair-- who said I would teach him statistics from soup to nuts.  He and another student tried to wreck my stat class by organizing other students to hate it with secret meetings (unknown to me until they all except one gave me the lowest rating possible in every category.)  Meanwhile I'd spend an hour or two a day teaching him SPSS.  He was a__-kissy and conniving during these sessions.  His undergrad degree was in engineering and he wasn't stupid, but his lack of character was a definite problem.  After I was non-reappointed, I confronted him about some of these issues.  He had a tweaked dataset on my computer, but he was afraid to come around and use it anymore-- good.  I really enjoyed erasing the dataset and formating over it multiple times on the day I left.

[skeptical]

I have found that frankness with students pays positive dividends. In this case, I would make a list of the behaviors that most annoy me. Then, I would sit down with the students and have a feedback session; something to the effect that--I think that you have the energy that this student organization needs. However, I find that oftentimes your energy is isn't as helpful as it might be. For example, when you do XXXX, it has this effect on the group. OR, you are an interesting person, but when you do YYY it makes me crazy and not want to work with you.

[spectacle]

I have found that frankness with students pays positive dividends. In this case, I would make a list of the behaviors that most annoy me. Then, I would sit down with the students and have a feedback session; something to the effect that--I think that you have the energy that this student organization needs. However, I find that oftentimes your energy is isn't as helpful as it might be. For example, when you do XXXX, it has this effect on the group. OR, you are an interesting person, but when you do YYY it makes me crazy and not want to work with you.

This seems potentially dangerous to me.  I know that in my department it would be enormously frowned upon to sit a student down and begin listing her personality flaws. 

Maybe it would be more productive to have a "career tips" session in one of the courses or activities the student is involved in.  That way you could frame it as... "in our field, the following characteristics are beneficial: humility, compromise, etc. etc; the following traits could cause people to not want to work with you: negativity, bossiness, know-it-all-ism, etc." 

But yes, rowan - I had one of these students last semester.  A sort of "That Guy" know-it-all, bossy-pants who had serious problems with my authority in the classroom, would try to trip me up, etc.  And every time I handed back a paper, he would loudly announce his grade and demand to know why he hadn't gotten an A. Even after I told him to cut it out, he still did this, because "it's his grade, he's allowed to tell it to people if he wants to."   
 
It's now, what, week 9 of this semester and I just got an email from him that he's contesting his grade from last semester.  JOY.  I am so happy to have to deal with him some more.  Really bright student.  Just a jerk and a pain to deal with. 

[antiphon1]

Get your zen on, Rowan.  

This little chickadee is digging her own grave.  Keep modeling professional behavior and demeanor.  Soon, you can nod sagely and murmur, "What a shame." when her pseudo fiefdom crashes.  

And make sure she has a really unattractive costume.

Seriously, she isn't worth your time or effort.  Don't let her ruin your day.  

[rowan1]

And make sure she has a really unattractive costume.

I love this - unfortunatly she is a pet of the costumer!

[antiphon1]

And make sure she has a really unattractive costume.

I love this - unfortunatly she is a pet of the costumer!

Well then, encourage a particularly bad period for her body type. 

[toothpaste]

Do any of you have a student you just don't like? On a fundamental level, not because they are a flake or a slacker, but because they are just a fairly unpleasant person?

Yes, of course. How could we meet as many students as we do without disliking some of them--just like the rest of the people we meet.

[mountainguy]

What Antipithon said. Let the student create her own problems and do your best to treat her the same way you would any other student.

Smithfield and OAP, I think we've all had students like that to one extent or another. It feels like a personal attack, but it's really a reflection of their own weaknesses/insecurities as students than it is you as an instructor. Two years ago, I had one student wait to file a grade complaint until Week 13 of the semester after he took my class, which was after the deadline according to the grade appeal procedure. Part of me wishes that the committee had decided to hear the appeal anyway, just so I could see him get smacked down.

Somewhat echoing OAP's situation, I had a problem student last spring who was a "star" student in another department. Apparently the feelings of antipathy were mutual. Everything I said or did was somehow a personal affront to her, even benevolent gestures like pushing a paper deadline back a week. I suspect she took offense that I didn't constantly lavish praise on her about how wonderful she was (she was a generally good student, but her work was nothing brilliant). She wrote a long nastygram on the course evaluations about how mean-spirited I was.

I wish I had been able to stop the situation from escalating (and in retrospect, there were a few course design things I could have done differently), but at the end of the day, I believe that I treated her fairly and that the vast majority of the problem was hers and not mine. I'm not exactly sure what caused the situation to escalate the way it did (although in another thread, one forumite suggested that it could been related to socioeconomic or racial anxieties).

[fiona]

The great thing about our profession is that the students do move on. How many jobs are there where the people who annoy you mostly leave after 15 weeks?

Because we stay and they go, we hold all the cards, really. (If we have tenure or close to it.)

Oldassocprof above thread complained about a "fat . . ." student. I think we do have to refrain from disliking students for their looks.

Few of us are incredibly gorgeous, excluding (of course) the people who've posted on this thread.

The Fiona

[hipgeek]

The great thing about our profession is that the students do move on. How many jobs are there where the people who annoy you mostly leave after 15 weeks?

Because we stay and they go, we hold all the cards, really. (If we have tenure or close to it.)

Oldassocprof above thread complained about a "fat . . ." student. I think we do have to refrain from disliking students for their looks.

Few of us are incredibly gorgeous, excluding (of course) the people who've posted on this thread.

The Fiona

I agree that the temporary nature of teacher/ student relations is a joy.  Even in the OP's case, soon the brat will graduate.  It can become a kind of countdown in certain classes with particularly annoying studfents--one can sometimes enough to make the class miserable.

In defense of OAP's diss of a student, I though the "fat" was maybe about more than just weight and was implying something about attitude, as well. There's a certain pushy presence of some loud and boorish men, and women to a lesser degree, that can be called "fattitude."  Roseanne Barr has it, or at least she did.

[rowan1]

I know she will eventually graduate.  I so look forward to that day!  I am working a mantra to keep myself in the zen realm when it comes to little miss bratty pants.

Like Mountainguy's experience, it appears as though she has taken the relationship to a personal level - her snotty behavior gets reserved for me while sucking up to the other faculty, most of whom have seen through it. 

For example, when the students were told they would only get $100 per driver toward gas to go to a conference that was being completely paid for by the department otherwise, I was the one that she complained about to the other students.  Mainly because, as the faculty adviser, I suggested that they charge their fellow students a fair amount and did the math on mileage for them.  Oddly - the directive on money came from the head of the program, not me.  But little miss bratty pants wanted to charge her "friends" $15 a head for gas money - because she insisted on driving her big old gas guzzler.  $5 was a fair amount.  Last year she made money on the travel fee adn bragged about paying her rent with it - welcome to tough economic times sweet heart.

It has also become an issue that I have not cast her - prior to this year it has been because other directors wanted her, and, despite her accusations (odd how they have no clue that their crappy little comments do in fact get back to us) I did in fact cast her in a featured dance role in which she pitched a fit and refused to sing for a mic check which held up rehearsal for a good 15 minutes.  All because she did not feel comfortable singing alone.  Which is kind of the point on mic checks.

All of my interactions with her have been as professional as I can make them.  And I know, this too shall pass, but man, this kid just pisses me off daily.

[mountainguy]

Wow, Rowan. It sounds like she has an attitude problem with life in general and not just you. I'm surprised that her peers put up with her. I was part of numerous student organizations as an undergrad, and if anyone had tried what you describe in terms of gay money, there would have been a backlash against that person.

I'd say "just keep on keeping on" and let her dig her own grave. It is incredibly unfortunate though that she's likely to become president of the student organization, but what can you do??? It's best not to turn this into a sequel of Election.

[antiphon1]

Give her all the responsibility she can stand in the student organization and get out of her way.  Limit yourself to a strictly advisory role in the group's administration.  As long neither the group nor she are breaking the law or institutional policy, don't say a word.   She will rise to the occasion or not.

Kill her with kindness.   A good dose of sincere bemusement and a brilliant smile shuts down most weaseling if implemented at the onset of the behavior.  Otherwise, well, bless her heart.  You tried to help her out didn't you?

[oldfullprof]

The great thing about our profession is that the students do move on. How many jobs are there where the people who annoy you mostly leave after 15 weeks?
Because we stay and they go, we hold all the cards, really. (If we have tenure or close to it.)
Oldassocprof above thread complained about a "fat . . ." student. I think we do have to refrain from disliking students for their looks.
Few of us are incredibly gorgeous, excluding (of course) the people who've posted on this thread.
The Fiona

He happened to be-- but not because he was.  Had he been thin, I might have said waspish.