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[dept_geek]

We have all come across that student (or set of students, depending on the term and the amount of piling on that is occurring) that will email or post statements that would most likely never say in person.  Sometimes, they are strident, other times - just plain ol'nasty.

I'm not looking for horror stories or examples of the nastiness - I'm looking for professional, academic-sounding, and creative ways (plural) of  saying the equivalent of 'that is extraordinarily unprofessional and you really need to (a) apologize and (b) put a sock in it.' 

I've tried reasoning (a disaster) and the the nuclear option (decanal response - surprising to the student and pretty effective), but I need some more in the arsenal.  These are freshman, mostly, but very few are traditional freshman.


Thanks!

[kedves]

I used to spend a lot of time composing appropriate replies to these, then tried a different approach that is much quicker and equally effective.  The magic word is "inappropriate":  "Your message to me was inappropriate.  I will overlook it this time."  I don't react.   I've never gotten a second note in the same tone, but my back-up would be "As indicated in the syllabus, I do not respond to communication that is inappropriate in tone or content."  

If I want to help the student and the note is not nasty, I say, "I realize that you are stressed, but you must recognize that the tone of your message was inappropriate.  I strongly advise maintaining a calmer tone, perhaps by waiting to write a message."

I have never asked for an apology, but the super-short "inappropriate" response has generated an apology about 80% of the time, whereas the explanation or more heavy-handed approaches have not.  My students might be different than other people's and this might not be a magic word everywhere.  Is it unemotional, face-saving, threatening, in sync with my personality, or something else?  I don't know why it works.  And I'm sure I'll meet some students with whom it doesn't work.

Prevention helps.  I was unprepared for nasty email when I started working here, and since then I started talking about manners a bit in the beginning of the semester, not a full how-to lesson as some people do, but a few lines about "Here's my email address; I reply within 24 hours and usually quicker, so send it once and be SURE to put a subject on the note.  I teach 4 classes, so give me your name to help me out.  Oh and by the way, sending an email to a professor that says 'How dare you give me a C (or similar example)!'?  Not a good idea."  Most of the students gasp, but I think, "Okay, you unsurprised students, you've been warned."  

Adding - Sorry, I wrote this before I realized it was in the online teaching forum.  But I have a practice test in my face-to-face class that goes over these issues with a choice of answers for "Which is the best email to send to a professor?" and other norms as well as "Which day is quiz day?" and things like that.  If I were doing it all online, I'd make that test/lesson more substantial.

[melba_frilkins]

Oddly enough (knock on wood) I get very little of such nastiness. Ill-informed, lazy, poorly written posts? Yes, all the time! But nasty, no not usually.

I'm not sure why not. I certainly have a diverse and challenging group of students every semester.

In fact, for one chapter I assign them to state which theory they agree with most, and then each student is required to respectfully disagree with one other student's choice. But many students have a hard time with it and apologize profusely before stating their disagreement. And some find a creative way to weasel out of disagreeing with anyone else.

I was going to say, prevention is the key and, ok, I must be good at preventing nastiness in the online forums. But I looked back at the guidelines I give for discussion and there is nothing about being nice or polite or friendly. It just talks about about writing style and mechanics and not posting things written in an IM/Chat style.

I did have one student one time who posted something entirely inappropriate. It was bad enough that I didn't feel any need to beat around the bush or be polite about it. I sent him an email along the lines of "Your post on topic X was inappropriate in terms of content and language. While I don't require formal writing on the discussion forum, you need to keep things appropriate for a classroom environment".

[dept_geek]

Thanks, kedves and melba.  We are at the point in the semester where the material is getting harder, the students still think that the effort in week 1 is good enough for week 9, and all of this is my fault. They lash out when the discovery is made that none of these parts above make for a true statement.

Sigh.

I suppose I need (a) a thicker skin and (b) less reliable internet so I can't check my sites or emails from home (what I don't know......).  :)

I guess I need to also ind more creative ways to say "This material will get hard starting in week 2 and continue to get get hard until we get to week 16 when it will be really challenging!"





 

[magistra]

Yeah, there's the problem.  You have to start them off hard and get them used to really working; then you can taper off later if you want, but not the other way around.  You get a lot of drops, but those who stay are willing to work.

[melba_frilkins]

Thanks, kedves and melba.  We are at the point in the semester where the material is getting harder, the students still think that the effort in week 1 is good enough for week 9, and all of this is my fault. They lash out when the discovery is made that none of these parts above make for a true statement.

Sigh.

I suppose I need (a) a thicker skin and (b) less reliable internet so I can't check my sites or emails from home (what I don't know......).  :)

I guess I need to also ind more creative ways to say "This material will get hard starting in week 2 and continue to get get hard until we get to week 16 when it will be really challenging!"

Do you mean they lashing out at you personally? I'd been thinking you meant at other students, which is bad in itself, but if they're being rude and nasty to you, I'm doubly sorry.

Yes, do work on developing a thick skin, that is try not to take it personally. Not being naturally thick-skinned, I  know that's easier said than done! But to some degree, you just have to shrug off the bumps that you run into this time around and write them up as learning experiences. I mean, if you see recurring themes in terms of what the students complain about, think about how you could fix that for future semesters. Sometimes that does mean spelling things out more carefully, or adding in some leniency. But once you've got everything spelled out clearly and a reasonable amount of forgiveness built in, it's time to be kind but strict.


And also remind yourself, it's not always keyboard "bravery". Most often, if not always, they're not lashing out at you personally, but awkwardly flailing about in their own ignorance, panic, and frustration. Have some compassion for the poor buggers, they're in over their heads. But don't waste too much time trying to analyze what the student is really trying to get at. Just reiterate relevant policy, share relevant tips for success in the class and sign off.

And yes, don't perpetually check your work emails from home. Set a reasonable schedule and stick to it. If you're like me, it's a good idea to never check the online class within an hour or two of bedtime!

 

[larryc]

I would totally kick their asses. I mean, I wouldn't put up with that s***. I would bust their balls and take some names. Tell them what little sh*ts they all are, maggots really, and how you are going to f*ck with their GPAs. Tell anyone who doesn't like it that they can meet you in the parking lot if they are willing to man up. I would arrange a meeting with one of them and smack him right in the nose, and when he is all crying and stuff I would whip out my video camera and post it on YouTube under the title THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU SCREW WITH PROFESSOR C. That is what I would do.

[dept_geek]

Yes, I am the target.  And yes, I'm pretty certain they are lashing out because of their own issues (this is one of those classes that is required and everyone puts off until their last semester when, "I haaaaave to graduate!!!!" happens). There were some very bizarre personal attacks recently.  LarryC, I love your solution - but I also really like my job. So, while I will *think* it, I can't (just yet) *do* it. Now, if only you were my dept chair.........   

Magistra - the course material is proscribed and I can't start out hard. The stuff starts out simple and builds and builds and builds.  With some of my advanced courses, yes, the fear of ZOD occurs during week 1. And that works well.

Melba - I like your solution.  I need to get better at "just the facts" and ignore the flailing.

Like you say, it's a learning experience.  A tough one, but one nonetheless.



 

[zuzu_]

I would totally kick their asses. I mean, I wouldn't put up with that s***. I would bust their balls and take some names. Tell them what little sh*ts they all are, maggots really, and how you are going to f*ck with their GPAs. Tell anyone who doesn't like it that they can meet you in the parking lot if they are willing to man up. I would arrange a meeting with one of them and smack him right in the nose, and when he is all crying and stuff I would whip out my video camera and post it on YouTube under the title THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU SCREW WITH PROFESSOR C. That is what I would do.

Hey larryc, did you get into the liquor cabinet again? :)

[larryc]

I was just modeling keyboard bravery. But ti was too close to my regular posts here for the satire to emerge. Hmmmm.

And yes, Zuzu.

[dept_geek]

I was just modeling keyboard bravery. But ti was too close to my regular posts here for the satire to emerge. Hmmmm.

Satire? Oh. I get it.  I secretly hoped you were being serious and would come over and lay some whoopass on a few of my children.

:)

[melba_frilkins]

I would totally kick their asses. I mean, I wouldn't put up with that s***. I would bust their balls and take some names. Tell them what little sh*ts they all are, maggots really, and how you are going to f*ck with their GPAs. Tell anyone who doesn't like it that they can meet you in the parking lot if they are willing to man up. I would arrange a meeting with one of them and smack him right in the nose, and when he is all crying and stuff I would whip out my video camera and post it on YouTube under the title THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU SCREW WITH PROFESSOR C. That is what I would do.

A good plan. But I'll need to post a different photo of myself on the course website. Maybe something like this?

[polly_mer]

I would totally kick their asses. I mean, I wouldn't put up with that s***. I would bust their balls and take some names. Tell them what little sh*ts they all are, maggots really, and how you are going to f*ck with their GPAs. Tell anyone who doesn't like it that they can meet you in the parking lot if they are willing to man up. I would arrange a meeting with one of them and smack him right in the nose, and when he is all crying and stuff I would whip out my video camera and post it on YouTube under the title THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU SCREW WITH PROFESSOR C. That is what I would do.

A good plan. But I'll need to post a different photo of myself on the course website. Maybe something like this?

No, no.  You want a picture that portrays you as look delicate and demure.  Everyone expects physical violence from scary looking people; that's why it's so much more impressive when those of us who don't look like we could successfully carry our own backpacks haul off and whale on someone who deserves it.  Once people see you toss a students around as though it were nothing, they tend to be a lot more respectful.

[dept_geek]

I would totally kick their asses. I mean, I wouldn't put up with that s***. I would bust their balls and take some names. Tell them what little sh*ts they all are, maggots really, and how you are going to f*ck with their GPAs. Tell anyone who doesn't like it that they can meet you in the parking lot if they are willing to man up. I would arrange a meeting with one of them and smack him right in the nose, and when he is all crying and stuff I would whip out my video camera and post it on YouTube under the title THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU SCREW WITH PROFESSOR C. That is what I would do.

A good plan. But I'll need to post a different photo of myself on the course website. Maybe something like this?

< cough ... sputter.... spew >

Oh gosh. That's great.  How ever do you have time to post here while maintaining that bod? 

[infopri]

I know this thread is getting a little elderly now, so maybe I'm too late to be helpful--but there's always next semester...

One important component in my online course is the discussion area, in which I post questions on controversial topics, questions to which there's no "right" answer, but plenty of zero-sum or mutually exclusive solutions (and, sometimes, "getting to yes"-type solutions that allow for compromise or even win-win).  In my syllabus, there is an entire paragraph on the need to be respectful to one another, to address the positions taken rather than the speakers themselves, to give opposing viewpoints serious consideration, etc.  I include a warning about how inappropriate comments, etc., won't be tolerated.  I tell them they must treat their classmates with respect, and I promise them that they will receive the same courtesy (because I'll sanction anyone whose posts get out of line, although I don't explicitly spell that out).

I understand that you're talking about students speaking to you inappropriately--but I think this paragraph sets a certain tone for the class, and therefore I get the benefit of it too, usually.  Most of my students are very respectful--even when they're demanding outrageous things.  (Dear Professor Infopri, can I please do no work and get an A?  I know you're very busy, so I'm sorry to bother you--even though I'll now check my mail compulsively every 15 minutes until you answer, and send you a reminder in three hours if I haven't heard from you by then.  Thank you so much, Your Lazy Student.)

However, I did have one group last year that didn't get the memo, apparently.  They were incredibly rude to me, with a huge sense of entitlement and a serious lack of manners.  I didn't do much about it (instead, I stayed focus on the substance of their communications, rather than the nastiness, etc.), but I like kedves's response.  (I love larryc's, too, but I'm not really a smack-in-the-nose kind of gal.  For one thing, I'm too short to get a good whack in.)