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[wharf_rat]

Does anyone have any comment on level of therapist (MSW vs. PhD vs. LMFT vs. other?) that is best in working with people who are as educated as many of us are?

Do you think it matters?

Part of me believes experience is most important, however, part of me also believes that a PhD can better relate to the pressures of research, teaching,  and the life of an academic.  And part of me also believes that a PhD has more understanding in human behavior and the therapy would be deeper?

Anyone have any experiences with different degreed therapists?

Thanks.

[bibliologos]

I've worked (in the past) with an MSW and (now) with a Ph.D.  Both men.  The MSW was very much about coping skills, looking to the future.  The Ph.D. is very much about getting at the roots of stuff and then changing patterns (cognitive-behavioral, I think, although he doesn't name it).  I liked both.  But, yeah, the Ph.D. is just, well, smarter.  For me, that's important, and yes, my preference for smart people in my life has come up in sessions.

[msparticularity]

I've worked with a couple of PhDs in psych, an MFT (marriage and family therapist) and a LCSW. In general, I found different ones to be really good at different points in my life--although the MFT was the least impressive. The PhDs included a traditional analytic therapist, some whose expertise was in transpersonal psychotherapy, and a Jungian (the last two were married). For me, and also for the relationship therapy that MrP and I have done together, it has been very important to find people who have an orientation that looks at systems, rather than at the individual in an isolated way. In fact, now that I've said that, I think that is the most important feature for me, rather than the specific degree. 

[hmprescott63]

Like Msparticularly, I've worked with both an MSW (in graduate school) and a LPC with a Ph.D. (now).  The MSW treated a lot of graduate students so was familiar with the pressures we faced.  The Ph.D. I now see used to work in academia, left it because of all the b.s. and started a private practice.  So, he has experience with what academics go through.

I don't think the issue is being "smarter" though.  Rather, it's experience with the type of issues that you're facing. 

[neutralname]

Lots of people, especially academics, seem to think of therapy as a game of wits.  The therapist is Sherlock Holmes, trying to find the cause of the problem, and the client is Moriarty, trying to outsmart the sleuth.  Then they complain that they are smarter than their therapists, and so the therapist can't help them. 

Better to conceive of the therapeutic enterprise as a joint project where client and therapist collaborate, so you are looking for a good match of skills.  Academics like to intellectualize everything, which can just get in the way, so it can be good to have a therapist who is able to cut to the emotional core.  Often an LCSW or MSW will be as good at this as a PhD or PsyD. 

I've seen MDs, PhDs, PsyDs, MSWs.  I don't think it makes much difference -- more important is how your personality meshes with your therapist's.

[prytania3]

Lots of people, especially academics, seem to think of therapy as a game of wits.  The therapist is Sherlock Holmes, trying to find the cause of the problem, and the client is Moriarty, trying to outsmart the sleuth.  Then they complain that they are smarter than their therapists, and so the therapist can't help them. 

Better to conceive of the therapeutic enterprise as a joint project where client and therapist collaborate, so you are looking for a good match of skills.  Academics like to intellectualize everything, which can just get in the way, so it can be good to have a therapist who is able to cut to the emotional core.  Often an LCSW or MSW will be as good at this as a PhD or PsyD. 

I've seen MDs, PhDs, PsyDs, MSWs.  I don't think it makes much difference -- more important is how your personality meshes with your therapist's.

I so agree. What makes you special because you are overly educated? Is that why you are going to therapy? Because you are so smart? I don't go to therapy because I'm smart. I go because I do really stupid, self destructive things, and I don't need an Einstein to see that.

[bibliologos]

Better to conceive of the therapeutic enterprise as a joint project where client and therapist collaborate, so you are looking for a good match of skills.  Academics like to intellectualize everything, which can just get in the way, so it can be good to have a therapist who is able to cut to the emotional core. 

Since I brought up the "smarter" issue, perhaps I should point out that the above is very true.  As my (PhD) therapist said to me a couple of weeks ago, "Like most academics, you like to live in your head, and you're not going to be able to solve [this issue] by doing so."  I can agree with him, because I respect him.  I respect him, in part, because he's smart. 

I don't think that an academic looking for a therapist should discount the importance we tend to place on education and "smartness".  Sure, there are probably lots of non-PhD therapists out there who could do the job that an academic needs.  But getting to know yourself and what drives you is part of therapy, and being honest with yourself about what kind of therapist you would work well with will help -- so you don't play Holmes and Moriarty.

[tolerantly]

This is a major problem and why I've more or less given up on therapy. It's no good when you can see that the shrink's method or suggestion is a crude or sentimental form of lying, something out of a Richard Yates novel, but the shrink can't see it. At that point you give it up, figure out how to get by, and try not to be a bigger ass than necessary to the people around you.

[lolar2]

If you specifically want to talk to someone who has been there with the dissertation process and academia and all that, there's nothing wrong with seeking out a Ph.D psychologist. It's not as though they are hard to come by.

[systeme_d_]

I just thought I'd throw this out there, even though Pry and Neutralname have posted essentially what I would have.

A lot of non-PhD'd therapists (MSW, LCSW, etc.) have academic partners.  I've especially found this to be true in a smaller college town.  They get it, because they live with it.

[grasshopper]

As an adult, I've seen four different therapists: two for panic and anxiety, and two for depression. In both cases, it boiled down to areas of experience, rather than level of education.

When I first developed panic disorder, I went to the uni's counselling center. The therapist there didn't have the experience to deal with my level of panic (I was off the charts - those of you who know me can imagine. Heh). Anyway, he sent me to a PhD student doing her dissertation on panic disorder therapy. She was fantastic. But not because she was getting a PhD. Because panic therapy was her specialization.

Then I had a major depression a few years ago, and again went to the uni's counselling center. The therapist there didn't have a PhD (I don't know what her credentials were, but they weren't PhD). She was fantastic.

But when I moved to Grassworks, where I'd taken a one-term teaching position, I had to find a new therapist. I had no money, so I went to one of the community center crisis counselling places. The woman I saw there was young (mid twenties), inexperienced, and used to dealing with low-income (and generally, low-education) people in crisis. I'm sure she would have been really great at doing damage-control, but my damage had already been controlled. I needed deep cleaning, and she simply didn't have the experience to do that. Yes, there was the issue of me being able to see through the exercises she wanted me to do (I did them in good faith, anyway, but they were pretty stupid, frankly). But really, I think the problem was more that her areas of expertise didn't suit my needs. We just weren't a good fit. I was pretty happy to get back to my regular therapist in Grad School Ville.

[post_functional]

It can be frustrating and counter-productive to recognize a therapist's tactic for what it is--- a tactic, particularly if you know and understand the structural basis of the therapy form.  I found myself distracted by the artfulness (or lack thereof) in employing the tactic on an intellectual level than responding to it in earnest.  On the other hand, seeing a therapist who had a job in academia while I was looking for one was a great blessing, because not only could he sympathize, he could also offer constructive hands-on advice and not just psychological treatment.

[msparticularity]

I have had some of the same experiences--a large part of my mind staying detached and analyzing the approach--when I have tried to see someone trained in standard modes of psychotherapy. My best results came when I worked with spiritual and transpersonal counselors and those who worked with somatic (bodily) issues.

[mountainguy]

To echo what others have already said, I've found that the therapist's degree matters less than the personality mesh. Some therapists simply aren't good fits for individuals; that doesn't necessarily make them "bad" therapists. They have strengths and weaknesses just like everyone else.

My current therapist, whom I respect very much, is an MSW. I've found her emphasis on coping skills to be far more helpful than my previous therapist, a PsychD who wanted to probe everything back to my childhood. Oddly, I found the the MSW therapist through a fortuitous coincidence. She specializes almost exclusively in addiction/recovery issues, but was doing general intake work the day I walked into the center. As it turns out, her secondary area of specialization is GLBT issues, and she offered to continue seeing me.

[merce]

This is so interesting.

I hadn´t necessarily (Consciously?) thought of my wanting a deeper cleaning as having to do with the degree of the chimney sweep. I´d thought of it as methodology but really, MSW is always where I seem to end up while what I want is a psychoanalyst.

I like my current MSW though really we talk about how I will get through the night and what my plans are for the next day. We talk daily on the phone.  I mention the eerily similar paths my father and I have taken that my brother seems to be following too.  This gets a nod and a "yeah, you shouldn´t do that anymore. So, can you be sure to organize your day tomorrow?...¨ and that´s about it.

I´m thinking I want to just try to get a deep cleaner and keep my MSW.  When I look up providers through my healthcare listings they seem to all be MSW. How can I get around this? or am I doing something wrong?