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[vanish]

I'm graduating from a private top 50 university (It's not great but it's good) this May with my BA in History and I'm considering applying to grad schools but I have no idea what schools would accept me.

My GPA is a 3.1 and my major GPA is 3.45 (I tried pre-med early on and did terrible). I'm not sure I will be able to get great recommendations, I was always friendly with my professors but I just never solidified a relationship after the class ended. I haven't taken the GRE yet so I will take that soon and apply for spring or Fall of 2011.

Would I even get into a masters program? If so what type of schools should I be applying to? Would applying for the spring hurt my chances? Also I'm interested in the Vietnam War and am considering living in Vietnam for a year would this look good if I decided to apply for a Masters degree?

Also I'm about 65k in debt from undergraduate, is it stupid for me to keep going to school and add more debt?

[prytania3]

Of course, you do. You should be able to get into Harvard or at least Chicago. And the debt? Who cares? It's history. I mean, there's a a need for history professors that's right up there with accounting and nursing. Take on all the debt the government will let you have. You'll make a fortune as a history professor at an Ivy, and you can pay off that piddly debt in a couple of months.

****This is getting old******

[vanish]

....

[egilson]

Talking to your undergrad advisor and to your school's career and placement office should help you make a decision about what to do.

[wet_blanket]

A large factor in grad school admittance (to a school you'd want to be at, rather than one that lets in as many warm bodies as can pay) is being able to articulate why you want the degree and why you want to go to a particular school.  You don't have to spell these out on a public internet forum, but make sure you can answer these convincingly for yourself.

Your GPA may be a problem, but it may not.  Most people have a weakness somewhere in their application.  You can't change your GPA now anyway, so you should concentrate on making the rest of your application as strong as possible.

Does your interest in the Vietnam War mean that your field is history?  If so, when you're thinking about why you want the degree, do some research on where the degree will get you.  Are there more job opportunities available to people with MAs in history than BAs?  (Hint: it's not just about being qualified on paper, but also the number of jobs available versus the number of applicants).

If you want to live in Vietnam for a year, I would recommend it.  I'm not sure living there now would make you more competitive because of your interest in the Vietnam War, unless you did some kind of research over there.  But, taking a break from school and trying to live in a new culture are good for their own sakes.

[kedves]

What is it about history that leads people to do this?  Half of my grad-school LORs go to history departments, and I'm not in history.  I write them with sadness because my students are so happy as they sail on their way.  History, you seductress!  Will you never mute your siren song?

[mended_drum]

Okay, I'll do it.

OP, there have been several other questions very similar to yours, but using a different tone.  Here is a summary of the advice provided on those threads:

1. History is a vastly crowded field, and the odds of getting a tenure-track job as a professor at the end of graduate school are extremely small.
2. If you are determined to pursue graduate study in history, or in another overcrowded humanities field, do not under any circumstances pay for the Ph.D. yourself.   Work to create a strong writing sample, a strong personal statement, and excellent GRE scores and only go to a program which offers you full funding, particularly with your current debt-load which is already going to be a burden.

There are several good books on getting into graduate school; you might consider buying or borrowing one.  Good luck.

[ms_pnw]

chime the seductress of history. the other day my partner tried to console me about my (almost) phd and no job (yet, fingers crossed) in an arts field by talking about how if he were to follow his dreams he'd do a history phd. Instead he did his in a field where 1) he got his dream job abd with an option to take a leave of absence whenever he likes to finish it, if and only if, he wants to; 2) without looking he has had 4 job offers since September; and 3) he's having no trouble paying off his student loans. Luckily he's happy in his field and is passionate about it as well.

So I'm thinking the solution is that I agree to go on any nerdy history-lover vacations, buy him whatever history books he wants, and listen to endless facts about everything that happened a long time ago, if he promises not to follow that dream!

On the other hand, I did my BFA in a field i love, a practical masters degree (education), and a PhD in the field I love. If I don't end up with a job in the arts, I've honed my craft and also have the skills to do a wide range of things in higher education, public schooling, social service, or the non-profit area. So I have no regrets (but big loans).  I'd say if you can't imagine loving anything other than history, study it in a way that sets you up for a wide range of careers.

[giggums]

Your GPA is quite low for graduate school and the fact that your professors are unlikely to write you glowing recommendations is a major red flag.

[tinyzombie]

Of course, you do. You should be able to get into Harvard or at least Chicago. And the debt? Who cares? It's history. I mean, there's a a need for history professors that's right up there with accounting and nursing. Take on all the debt the government will let you have. You'll make a fortune as a history professor at an Ivy, and you can pay off that piddly debt in a couple of months.

<evil grin>

****This is getting old******

<enthusiastic nod>

[theburiedlife]

No.

[vanish]

Ok thanks for the advice/information everyone, sorry if I irritated anyone with my questions.

[tee_bee]

Ok thanks for the advice/information everyone, sorry if I irritated anyone with my questions.

The irritation is not your fault. You may see on this forum a lengthy discussion started by a young man who started with a similar set of questions, and who reacted rather forcefully to the advice he was given. Lots of folks bring the snark here, but if you read the threads, I think you'll gain the broader point.

An alternative to consider might be political science or international relations, which can be approached in all sorts of ways--historical, statistical, etc. The job market for political science is bad; the job market for history is abysmal. The attrition rate in history programs is huge, because (speaking as a political scientist) I think being a good historian is really hard work--lots of primary sources, archival research, careful writing, etc. Lots of history ABDs have the monster in a box--the big dissertation that just doesn't get done (If you've read All the Kings Men, Robert Penn Warren's novel, you know the narrator speaks of his unfinished dissertation at length.)  There's some of this in my discipline, but we can sometimes get off-the-shelf datasets like the Correlates of War data that for some of us are easier to work with. Of course, it goes to one's predispositions and talents. But for some reason the poli sci job market feels less grim than history. Others may have more recent experience in this regard.

I'd try to get an MA at a decent school first, boost the grades, and then go for the PhD. I know folks with 3.7 GPAs undergrad who cannot get into a good program. They--and you--can distinguish themselves with some good graduate level work. Just don't take on too much debt doing it, and good luck.

[oldadjunct]

Given you UG record, you are at best a mediocre student.  You will get into a mediocre program, even with funding.  After spending a great deal of additional money you will have a mediocre resume/CV.  You will compete against many non-mediocre graduates who will likewise find their way outside academia.

I am sorry, but that is the truth you asked for.

[wet_blanket]

Given you UG record, you are at best a mediocre student.  You will get into a mediocre program, even with funding.  After spending a great deal of additional money you will have a mediocre resume/CV.  You will compete against many non-mediocre graduates who will likewise find their way outside academia.

I am sorry, but that is the truth you asked for.

As someone with a very mediocre UG record, and a decidedly non-mediocre resume/CV since UG, I feel the need to word this a different way: your UG record gives the impression that you are a mediocre student.  Likely, this is due to some combination of laziness (my problem), life circumstances affecting your studies, or actual mediocrity.  You need to be active in taking opportunities to demonstrate that you're better than your UG record suggests.