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[frogfactory]

What is this, Groundhog day?

[educatedfool]

You won't know until you try, so do what you want to do, any advice to the contrary is to be contemplated, but not necessarily heeded.

I finished my freshman year with a 1.8 GPA. I was at a good school on a four-year President's Scholarship (full ride). I quit for 3 years and came back when I was ready and did really well (had to then put myself through). I was accepted into grad school and eventually got my MA.

Lots of people have far from stellar past performances.

So, don't let anything stop you from doing what you want to do, but don't be naive about what to expect. Try, and if you fail, move on to something else you want to do, knowing you will never wonder "what if."

[history_grrrl]

Speaking as one who got seduced (but not abandoned):

The OP did mention the pre-med courses that undoubtedly dragged down the GPA. A helpful letter-writer can make a note of this in the letter. Undergrads often screw up in their first year or so. You wouldn't believe how low my GPA was when I dropped out of college.

When I decided to apply to grad school, back in the Stone Age, two of the profs whom I would have approached for letters had died. I ended up having to approach a prof who didn't really know me for one of the letters, but I knew the TA, who probably drafted the letter for the prof to sign. (But I'm prettey sure that my other letters were stellar. You need stellar letters.)

Exceptional GRE scores may help boost the app.

Asian history might be less crowded than U.S. history.

That is all.

[commcycle]

Given you UG record, you are at best a mediocre student.  You will get into a mediocre program, even with funding.  After spending a great deal of additional money you will have a mediocre resume/CV.  You will compete against many non-mediocre graduates who will likewise find their way outside academia.

I am sorry, but that is the truth you asked for.

As someone with a very mediocre UG record, and a decidedly non-mediocre resume/CV since UG, I feel the need to word this a different way: your UG record gives the impression that you are a mediocre student.  Likely, this is due to some combination of laziness (my problem), life circumstances affecting your studies, or actual mediocrity.  You need to be active in taking opportunities to demonstrate that you're better than your UG record suggests.

Indeed. My undergrad GPA was similarly mediocre, and I got into a top program for my field. I simply had to work that much harder to demonstrate I would excel in the Ph.D program. It's hard for people who were born with a passion for a subject to believe, but it's a longer road for the rest of us.

[history_grrrl]

Oh, my god. There's a spelling mistake in my post. <hangs head in shame>

[educatedfool]

Shouldn't the word "god" also be caps?  <smile>

[educatedfool]

Just kidding. I know it's correct as you wrote it, since it's not a proper noun - it's your god, not a specific god, as in Thor or Zerus, but if we were all of the same religion, we could argue it's a specifically named god and should be capitalized...however, since it is assumably your god, maybe it is a proper noun and should be...

(Maybe this is what reading too much Quine does to one, I dunno...)

[ravioli]

I second (third, fourth??) people's comments that you should think very carefully about going into grad school in history - it's a long long road and with the job market the way it is, one that is frequently depressing.  20th Century U.S. history is also a very full field and if you choose to do international/foreign relations/diplomatic history (whatever it's being called these days) you will be on the margins of that field - that is, some places will not consider you for jobs that aren't specifically for people who do U.S. and the World and you will have narrower application prospects.  I also would not hang your hat only on wanting to study the Vietnam War - it's a very popular topic and there is a ton of work done/being done on it (and will be even more by the time you would finish).  If you want to do U.S. and World stuff, do it because you are genuinely interested in the broader scope of inquiry involved in studying that field.  I don't say this to discourage you - I am a historian and I love it (most of the time) - but to help you make a more informed decision.

That said, if you do want to do grad school and really want to do something related to Vietnam, going to Vietnam, doing some language work etc., certainly won't hurt you.  I can't comment on the GPA factors, since I am a grad student myself and thus have no experience with admissions, but certainly those experiences would supplement your resume.  It's never a bad thing to take some time between undergrad and grad school to think about it outside the school environment - you might realize you don't want to go back!!  And I can't emphasize enough, as someone who did all their foreign language work in grad school, how helpful it is to have started or even done the bulk of your language work before you go.

One final word of advice that my own undergrad advisor gave me - never ever take out extensive loans to pay for a humanities PhD.  If you can't get in somewhere with funding, don't do it.

[ticklemepink]

I second (third, fourth??) people's comments that you should think very carefully about going into grad school in history - it's a long long road and with the job market the way it is, one that is frequently depressing.  20th Century U.S. history is also a very full field and if you choose to do international/foreign relations/diplomatic history (whatever it's being called these days) you will be on the margins of that field - that is, some places will not consider you for jobs that aren't specifically for people who do U.S. and the World and you will have narrower application prospects.  I also would not hang your hat only on wanting to study the Vietnam War - it's a very popular topic and there is a ton of work done/being done on it (and will be even more by the time you would finish).  If you want to do U.S. and World stuff, do it because you are genuinely interested in the broader scope of inquiry involved in studying that field.  I don't say this to discourage you - I am a historian and I love it (most of the time) - but to help you make a more informed decision.

That said, if you do want to do grad school and really want to do something related to Vietnam, going to Vietnam, doing some language work etc., certainly won't hurt you.  I can't comment on the GPA factors, since I am a grad student myself and thus have no experience with admissions, but certainly those experiences would supplement your resume.  It's never a bad thing to take some time between undergrad and grad school to think about it outside the school environment - you might realize you don't want to go back!!  And I can't emphasize enough, as someone who did all their foreign language work in grad school, how helpful it is to have started or even done the bulk of your language work before you go.

One final word of advice that my own undergrad advisor gave me - never ever take out extensive loans to pay for a humanities PhD.  If you can't get in somewhere with funding, don't do it.

Agreed.  Agreed.  I'm in history as well.  You'll be surprised how your interests will shift (all in correlated pattern).  If Vietnam War is your primary interest, okay, cool.  But look beyond the military conflict between the U.S. and communists and see what kind of underlying issues that are being overlooked by historians.  To do this means doing a LOT of reading.  An extended stay in Vietnam might open up your eyes to possible issues that you can propose to research as a doctoral student.  You'll be picking up Vietnamese and traveling around the country and talking to Vietnamese people to learn about their history and culture.  They may mention something that would be of GREAT importance to historians but not necessarily in their own eyes.  Since Laos and Cambodia were also involved, you could look into those societies as well.

Part of figuring out what you want to study and convincing your war through PhD admissions is thinking outside the (very) big box.  Talk to a professor who specializes in Vietnam War and ask him what is the state of that sub-field.  Get ahold of syllabi on Vietnam War (or related to it) and see what kind of approach the professor uses to teach the course.

It's not easy at all to do all this work.  I'm very interested in a very popular genocide that's been overdone in many areas but I've lucked out by switching my geographical focus and saw what was missing in the story of that genocide.  That is part of the reason why I'm suggesting that  you look at other possible agents of the war such as USSR, China, Laos, Cambodia, etc and how the war affected them.

Then again as your spend  time in Vietnam, you may find something that you'd rather study and dump the whole Vietnam War idea.  I have another country that I absolutely love and admire its history but if someone were to ask me if I wanted to study this country's history, would I use this genocide topic?  Surprisingly, no, because there is another aspect of this country that I'm much more interested in.  Therefore, I'm not studying this country's history.

Good luck!

[blossoming]

I had an even lower gpa by far but I went to a top 5 school and got into a top 5 graduate program in my field. If I were you, I would take some time off and work pay down what you can on your student loans. Maybe do teach for america or some kind of program that will help you with your loans and then apply to graduate school. Real world experience is great and can really help take the focus away from your gpa.

[offthemarket]

Huh.  I guess humanities are different than the sciences.

I had a similar GPA from a similar school, in the sciences.  I had my pick of several PhD programs (though in my field, it's the lab that counts more than the institution, per se)  and now I am in a super faculty position.  So, your mileage may vary.

[t_r_b]

My advice:

1. Get a job in Vietnam, preferably one that pays well. Live there for several years. Become fluent in Vietnamese, if you are not already. If at all possible, learn Chinese, plus Khmer, or any other language of the region that might be helpful in your research. You'll also need solid reading knowledge of French, for the colonial era stuff.

2. While living in Vietnam, learning languages, and making money, pay off your student loans.

3. During the same period, read a lot of recent scholarship on Southeast Asia. If you can, attend conferences in the field. Figure out where the important Vietnamese archives are, and what kind of stuff they have. Find out what the hot research areas are now. Read acknowledgments and note academic affiliations in order to figure out which PhD programs are producing the most exciting new scholars. Figure out what topics and themes interest you the most, and start formulating possible research questions.

4. Once you've mastered the requisite languages and paid off your student loans, apply to PhD programs in Southeast Asian history. You'll know which ones to apply to based on #3, above. Your command of the languages, familiarity with the country, and varied life experiences will more than make up for your shaky undergrad GPA. Go to the program that offers you full funding AND where you'll have a mentor with a solid track record of training (and placing) PhD students.

5. While in grad school, develop secondary teaching fields in east Asian and/or south Asian and/or world and/or comparative history. Get real teaching experience at the world and/or regional survey level. If you get some experience in language instruction as well, that won't hurt.

If you can manage all of that, you will have a very good chance at a successful career in Southeast Asian history. You will be far more employable than you would be in 20th century US history (there are a lot fewer Southeast Asianists out there, and a growing interest in the field). Your undergrad GPA, and your student loans, will be long forgotten.

If, by contrast, you go into a grad program in US history, your chances will be pretty lousy, as others have noted.

[academic_cog]

Does it have to be history, or does it have to be Vietnam?

Could you study Vietnam in one of the Asian "area studies" programs, or political science, or international relations, or even linguistics/a language department? Those disciplines might have marginally better job prospects than for history PhDs. What about anthro or sociology?

Could you go teach English there while paying down your student loans? (I've heard differing thoughts on this --- while I have friends who did this and loved it, they have disputed whether it was decent money or not. You may want to weigh "survival salary rates" vs "paying down a big chunk of loans in addition to survival rates.")

And does it have to be *now*? Try working at a non profit or some sort of think tank (or a business!) that covers issues for this part of the world --- you may discover you like it too much to go back to school. Or, you may apply about 4-5 years out and have this really interesting resume you could point to. My school has a dossier service and they will hold letters for five years. I tell my students that they should ask profs for letters to be held on file if they know they will take a break from school. The profs write letters right away while they still remember who you are and how good your essays were, and then keep copies on file as well as wherever they stash stuff in their offices never to be seen again. They can always have their letters sent back to themselves if they can't find what they wrote.

Or alternately, you could run away and join the circus. That would be my preferred choice.

[wet_blanket]

Could you go teach English there while paying down your student loans? (I've heard differing thoughts on this --- while I have friends who did this and loved it, they have disputed whether it was decent money or not. You may want to weigh "survival salary rates" vs "paying down a big chunk of loans in addition to survival rates.")

1. Get a job in Vietnam, preferably one that pays well. ...
2. While living in Vietnam, learning languages, and making money, pay off your student loans.

The OP may well be able to find a job with a salary in dong that enables her to live very, very well in Vietnam; a job that would enable her to make any dent at all in loans in US$ is another matter entirely.

[ticklemepink]

Could you go teach English there while paying down your student loans? (I've heard differing thoughts on this --- while I have friends who did this and loved it, they have disputed whether it was decent money or not. You may want to weigh "survival salary rates" vs "paying down a big chunk of loans in addition to survival rates.")

1. Get a job in Vietnam, preferably one that pays well. ...
2. While living in Vietnam, learning languages, and making money, pay off your student loans.

The OP may well be able to find a job with a salary in dong that enables her to live very, very well in Vietnam; a job that would enable her to make any dent at all in loans in US$ is another matter entirely.

Precisely correct.  Unless the OP can get a job sponsored by an American or European company, chances of paying off a debt using Vietnamese salary will take ages.  That's why I'm telling my friends in the country that I would love to live in that I cannot come until my student loans are paid off.  Because if I tried to pay off my loans with that country's average yearly salary, I'll be sleeping on the streets!