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[prytania3]

My old accountant told me that, on April 15, everyone is a Republican. In the anti-tax sense, of course. I doubt I will get a refund this year, but I pray that I don't owe any either.

We paid about $26,000 in federal taxes net of the refund.

IF you want tax reform, stop mandatory withholding.  Let people actually WRITE the check for $26000. 

No need to get a refund, they wont have collected the money in the first place. 

(and implement the death penalty for tax dodgers... Change the saying to,
"nothing is certain except Death OR Taxes".)

Clean, I never thought I would hear this advice from you, who is usually so conservative with money. That's exactly how I got myself in trouble with both the feds and the state. I had nothing withheld, and then settled at the end of the year--then one year I came up way short--it hasn't been pretty, but I'm expecting a refund this year, which will cover the remaining balance. J'espere. But I owed the state and feds two years of taxes, and I make a little coin.

[clean]

It wasnt exactly 'advice'.  It was just a little rant of my own.  No one really thinks about the taxes that they pay because it is not in one spot.  IF we put it in one spot it would be more 'real'. 

And IF we did have to write the check, and not have witholding, I would certainly be 'advising' that we SAVE for it and not borrow when the taxes come due!

 Ive not done my taxes yet.  This is about as late as Ive ever left them, and I dont know if i will get a refund or not.  After Spring Break, I ll get to it.

All I DO know is that my witholdings for Income tax, SSI and Medicare total over 30,000 before the state's share of SSI and medicare.    I saved less than 21000 for retirement (before the state match, whatever that added up to) .  (that is on top of the 3160 I paid in property taxes that I do write a check for).

Im just sayin... You want political reform?  You want to throw the bums out?  Know how much you pay in taxes by writing the check and then we will care more about how much of our money they are spending to build bridges to no where or why hogs stink.

[qrypt]

I want taxes to be higher.

Because I want the things that taxes pay for.  Including my salary.  But not only that.

[tee_bee]

1. Everyone--I mean, everyone--hates taxes.

2. Everyone--I mean, everyone--loves massive federal pork projects in their districts.

Does anyone detect a contradiction?

We're the most lightly taxed people in the OECD, with the exception of very few countries. I don't worry about taxes much.

[fizmath]

1. Everyone--I mean, everyone--hates taxes.

2. Everyone--I mean, everyone--loves massive federal pork projects in their districts.

Does anyone detect a contradiction?

We're the most lightly taxed people in the OECD, with the exception of very few countries. I don't worry about taxes much.

OK, I don't have the numbers in front of me but I suspect Europe is not that much higher, especially when you factor in health expenses in the USA.  Add in our premiums and and out of pocket expenses and we might be even.  Most of Europe has little to no property, inheritance and capital gains tax. 

[madhatter]

And IF we did have to write the check, and not have witholding, I would certainly be 'advising' that we SAVE for it and not borrow when the taxes come due!

Does your master plan include genetic modification of humans so that we become a species with that kind of personal forethought?

[tee_bee]

1. Everyone--I mean, everyone--hates taxes.

2. Everyone--I mean, everyone--loves massive federal pork projects in their districts.

Does anyone detect a contradiction?

We're the most lightly taxed people in the OECD, with the exception of very few countries. I don't worry about taxes much.

OK, I don't have the numbers in front of me but I suspect Europe is not that much higher, especially when you factor in health expenses in the USA.  Add in our premiums and and out of pocket expenses and we might be even.  Most of Europe has little to no property, inheritance and capital gains tax. 

Yes, perhaps, if you add in our premiums, car payments (because we have no public transport to speak of save for a few countries), day care, etc. But these aren't taxes--they are services provided--often poorly--by "free" markets that pay child care workers $8/hr and allow Anthem to jack up premiums while paying their fat cat CEOs big coin. My point is this--in terms of what governments extract from our paychecks, our rates are lower, and we get less in services than other countries. Nothing wrong with that, normatively. The paradox is the incessant b*itching about tax rates from people who get huge tax breaks--those with capital gains (we tax speculation at a lower rate than work), mortgage tax deductions, etc. I know--I take advantage of these deductions, and I do understand that I am fortunate enough to have the means to take advantage of tax breaks--and to hire an accountant to find more.

The point: Americans can either demand even less from their governments, or stop whining about taxes. Pick one. Of course, there's nothing that prevents both from happening right around April 15.

Some sources on relative taxation; not all peer reviewed, some of them pretty weak. But they're the numbers we have, so far.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/taxes/p148855.asp

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/url.cfm?ID=1000976 (Really, I thought of the OECD comparison all by myself!)

If taxes did go up to pay for health care, overall health expenditures may go down, if other countries' experiences can be trusted: http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL34175_20070917.pdf

[I am not not, nor was I ever, an economist, FWIW]

[parispundit]

Here in la belle France, there is no income tax withholding. Either you pay it all at the end of the year, or if you prefer you can set up quarterly estimated tax payments. It has not, pace Clean, had any effect on French tax behavior.

There are heavy inheritance taxes here, by US standards. Property taxes in France vary enormously by locality, just as in the US, but in general are lighter here, and Paris has the lowest in France. The city of Paris also has no, I mean zero, debt.

Last I looked at the OECD #s, the total of state local and national taxes in the US came out 1-2% of GDP lower than the European average. The US is, by comparison with the rest of the civilized world, a LITTLE less taxed. Unfortunately, the US gets a LOT less in the way of services for its money, partly because our health care system, I mean the part paid for by the government (medicare, etc) is so inefficient, partly because the services we choose to buy most with our tax dollars are the armed services.