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Author Topic: Applying to Belmont University as a non-Christian?  (Read 4452 times)
yellowtractor
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« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2010, 04:11:58 PM »

Totalitarian repression under Tibetan Buddhism?  I'm not aware of any historical regimes that practiced totalitarianism in the name of the Buddha.  Perhaps you can enlighten me (so to speak). 

Prior to the Chinese expulsion of the moronic Dalai Lama, Tibet was a feudal theocracy.

Just like Belmont University!

See, I knew there was a link.  There had to be.

<<End of thread on Belmont University>>
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Just go and collapse in someone's office and moan, "You've got to help me; I just can't be the guy who brings the ham."
spyzowin
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« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2010, 07:18:15 PM »

Totalitarian repression under Tibetan Buddhism?  I'm not aware of any historical regimes that practiced totalitarianism in the name of the Buddha.  Perhaps you can enlighten me (so to speak). 

Prior to the Chinese expulsion of the moronic Dalai Lama, Tibet was a feudal theocracy.

Just like Belmont University!

See, I knew there was a link.  There had to be.

<<End of thread on Belmont University>>

SIDEBAR: in political sciencey terms, how would you describe the administration of a typical university? how about a private religious university?  if it isn't actually a feudal theocracy, it's probably close.
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prytania3
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« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2010, 07:26:28 PM »

I don't know why so many people begrudge religious colleges and unis. Gender, race, etc. are things you are born into (and I know some clown is going to want to quibble about gender). You choose your religion. Anyway, not to allow religious colleges latitudes regarding faith is an encroachment on freedom, and the bashing of such institutions shows intolerance--which is what everyone is always accusing the religious right of practicing. Religious colleges and unis are not hurting you. Okay, they probably won't give you a job without a statement of faith, but so what? Shouldn't people have choices in the way they want to be educated?

Live and let live already.

And to Amnirov: you may think religion has caused all the evils of the world--and perhaps it has--but then again, you have no evidence that things would be better without religion, and things can always get worse.
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temporaryname
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« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2010, 04:13:55 PM »

<snip>

Does the US have an atheist university where professors sign a charta that they "as an atheist community we believe in integrity, intellectual honesty and charity that does not expect something return in an 'after-life'" or some other stuff that implies that Christians lack in moral values? And should the hires there happen to become religious during tenure-track, they better hide it carefully?

<snip>
Overtly? No. Covertly? Sorta.

I, a believer who doesn't really advertise it, have worked in a department where to openly admit belief in any western religion was to invite mockery and questions about one's suitability as a teacher and researcher. Not that it mattered terribly much to me--like I said, I don't widely advertise my belief, and I tend to think that one's belief or lack thereof isn't really something that belongs in the workplace anyway--but it was certainly real. (Not directed at me--I apparently passed successfully as an atheist--but I saw a couple other people get hit with it.)

Essentially, attitudes like the ones Amnirov has expressed on this and other threads toward religion do exist--and people who hold those attitudes sit on tenure and promotion committees.

On preview: On the whole, though, I agree with Macadamia's post. I may be a believer, but I'm not really a fan of religious education, nor of religious discrimination (in any direction).
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spyzowin
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« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2010, 04:58:38 PM »

<snip>

Does the US have an atheist university where professors sign a charta that they "as an atheist community we believe in integrity, intellectual honesty and charity that does not expect something return in an 'after-life'" or some other stuff that implies that Christians lack in moral values? And should the hires there happen to become religious during tenure-track, they better hide it carefully?

<snip>
Essentially, attitudes like the ones Amnirov has expressed on this and other threads toward religion do exist--and people who hold those attitudes sit on tenure and promotion committees.

Punishing someone for being religious makes as much sense as punishing someone for having a cold.
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macadamia
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« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2010, 04:29:50 PM »

You choose your religion.
I "chose" my religion as much as I "chose" my native language.
My religious institution was very good at binding me psychologically long after I stopped to believe.

Anyway, not to allow religious colleges latitudes regarding faith is an encroachment on freedom, and the bashing of such institutions shows intolerance--

A normal employer is not allowed to discriminate against atheists or believers including Belmont graduates, so why are religious colleges entitled to more freedom than everyone else? If they want to employ a priest, that is one thing, but if they employ a teacher for basket weaving and a cleaner, that is another thing entirely.
I think it is quite fine to show intolerance in the face of intolerance.

For the record, I would certainly speak up against the idea that religious belief makes one unfit as a teacher or researcher, but in the places I have been this is an outlandish scenario. I promise to remember if things are very different in thirty years time or a different place, and I will easily point to the religious people who have disagreed with me on most political and religious issues, but have supported me as my teachers regardless.
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aandsdean
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« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2010, 08:29:17 PM »

You choose your religion.
I "chose" my religion as much as I "chose" my native language.
My religious institution was very good at binding me psychologically long after I stopped to believe.

Anyway, not to allow religious colleges latitudes regarding faith is an encroachment on freedom, and the bashing of such institutions shows intolerance--

A normal employer is not allowed to discriminate against atheists or believers including Belmont graduates, so why are religious colleges entitled to more freedom than everyone else? If they want to employ a priest, that is one thing, but if they employ a teacher for basket weaving and a cleaner, that is another thing entirely.
I think it is quite fine to show intolerance in the face of intolerance.

For the record, I would certainly speak up against the idea that religious belief makes one unfit as a teacher or researcher, but in the places I have been this is an outlandish scenario. I promise to remember if things are very different in thirty years time or a different place, and I will easily point to the religious people who have disagreed with me on most political and religious issues, but have supported me as my teachers regardless.

The exemption on religion in AA/EOE rules for religiously-affiliated institutions is the same one that applies to churches (I'm going to presume that, unless like amnirov you viscerally object to churches, you're ok with, say, a Catholic church not  being required to hire a Muslim to be the priest).  It's based on the idea that the religious identity of a place is essential to its mission and existence and is therefore entitled to an exception.  A so-called "normal employer" has no fundamental reason to impose a religious test, and is therefore not allowed to do so.  A church or other religious institution does have that fundamental reason.

Yes, I know, the same arguments have been made about women at Augusta National (there, the argument is utter nonsense, but that's a different thread), and in the past had been made about nonwhite people in various places.

I'm not religious, but I'm wholly untroubled by the exemption from the religion part of AA/EOE rules for schools such as Belmont.  They're not lying to anyone about what they are.  They're making what I presume is a sincere effort to adhere to the parameters of their missions.  Their religious identity is part of their missions.  

By the way, I expect that if you founded "Atheist University," and made "The Rule of Reason" its mission, you'd be perfectly free to exclude religious believers under exactly the same rubric with which they'd exclude you.  But even though the US is pretty religious (I'd certainly agree that it's excessively so), the fact is that there are hugely more secular institutions than strictly religious ones, and there are indeed places (many, many of them) where the overtly religious are unofficially and illegally and covertly discriminated against.  At least Belmont University is telling the truth about how it discriminates.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 08:30:26 PM by aandsdean » Logged

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