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[spyzowin]

There was a thread out there where the poster had some sort of neurological disorder that presumably resulted in a repetitive twitch or tic or something. Students were making light of it on the evaluations and the OP was concerned that the department chair would discriminate against him in some way.

It seems like the unexplored question is whether or not students are allowed to discriminate against faculty in ways that clearly would violate the ADA had said students been employers.  EG we don't want to study in a class with a prof with this type of irritating speech impediment. We want to change sections. Or... we find Professor X's disability to be distracting. We want to change sections.

There is no "protection" granted from "consumers" right?

[post_functional]

Yeah, I can't stand that irritating professor with the mechanical speech device that takes forever.... what was his name?  Hawking? 

Amnirov raises a good point.  The broader context here is one more situation in which we need to help the snowflakes students grow up.  To miss out on the opportunity to interact with a brilliant mind because one cannot concentrate beyond the distractions of someone's tic would be really sad.

[spyzowin]

Yeah, I can't stand that irritating professor with the mechanical speech device that takes forever.... what was his name?  Hawking? 

Amnirov raises a good point.  The broader context here is one more situation in which we need to help the snowflakes students grow up.  To miss out on the opportunity to interact with a brilliant mind because one cannot concentrate beyond the distractions of someone's tic would be really sad.

That's a problem at least on my campus. Students can challenge a grade. Lodge a formal complaint about something that you did in class. Lodge a different type of complaint about your conduct out of class (I'm actually on that committee and am happy to say that in three years it has never met). And so on.

But where outside of phoning security when there is a physical threat, is our protection from low level student harassment and threats.

It's never happened to me, owing to my cold, jerk-like exterior, but I've seen colleagues mercilessly harassed and bullied by whining snowflakes in search of better grades, and, seriously, god help the stammering professor. Students will actually complain to a chair in groups, demanding action about someone's speech impediment.

[madhatter]

There was a thread out there where the poster had some sort of neurological disorder that presumably resulted in a repetitive twitch or tic or something. Students were making light of it on the evaluations and the OP was concerned that the department chair would discriminate against him in some way.

It seems like the unexplored question is whether or not students are allowed to discriminate against faculty in ways that clearly would violate the ADA had said students been employers.  EG we don't want to study in a class with a prof with this type of irritating speech impediment. We want to change sections. Or... we find Professor X's disability to be distracting. We want to change sections.

There is no "protection" granted from "consumers" right?

The ADA protects individuals against adverse employment decisions based on their disability. A disabled professor's students can not violate the ADA. The disabled professor's employer can violate the ADA if they create an unequal employment situation for him/her because of the disability. If, for example, the chair or dean or registrar (or other official of the university) agrees to move a bunch of students out of the professor's section because of the disability and it can be demonstrated that no similar treatment would occur for non-disabled professors, then that professor would have a potential discrimination case.

[post_functional]

Exactly.  ADA would still apply indirectly if the dean caved in to the intolerant whines.

[spyzowin]

Exactly.  ADA would still apply indirectly if the dean caved in to the intolerant whines.

Well, doesn't the ADA want to know that the party who was discriminated against suffered some sort of detrimental effect?  Having 5 or 6 students change sections doesn't affect pay or anything like that, so wouldn't it be a really hard case to make?  I mean the administration cannot force a student to not drop a class.

[madhatter]

Exactly.  ADA would still apply indirectly if the dean caved in to the intolerant whines.

Well, doesn't the ADA want to know that the party who was discriminated against suffered some sort of detrimental effect?  Having 5 or 6 students change sections doesn't affect pay or anything like that, so wouldn't it be a really hard case to make?  I mean the administration cannot force a student to not drop a class.

Yes, you do have to prove that your employment situation was adversely affected. Did the change cause a reduction in income, impact promotion/tenure, or otherwise have a material effect on the professor's future?

[spyzowin]

Exactly.  ADA would still apply indirectly if the dean caved in to the intolerant whines.

Well, doesn't the ADA want to know that the party who was discriminated against suffered some sort of detrimental effect?  Having 5 or 6 students change sections doesn't affect pay or anything like that, so wouldn't it be a really hard case to make?  I mean the administration cannot force a student to not drop a class.

Yes, you do have to prove that your employment situation was adversely affected. Did the change cause a reduction in income, impact promotion/tenure, or otherwise have a material effect on the professor's future?

Okay... so two points:

1) so students are free to change sections at liberty for whatever reason they want (even if the reasons are blatantly discriminatory, eg I don't want a class with a guy in a wheelchair, I don't want a class with a woman, etc;

2) how does that work when students write discriminatory things about the professor in evaluations? It doesn't mean anything, I guess, unless some chair or dean takes an action based on student comments. But what if the chair says... okay, no more 300 person freshman lectures for you. From now on, only small seminars where you won't have to speak very much. Would that meet the standard for ADA? (I chose this example because it would be hard to demonstrate that a freshman lecture is a better assignment than a senior seminar). Or would the ADA come into play even if it was a "different but equal" or "better" reassignment?

[msparticularity]

Exactly.  ADA would still apply indirectly if the dean caved in to the intolerant whines.

Well, doesn't the ADA want to know that the party who was discriminated against suffered some sort of detrimental effect?  Having 5 or 6 students change sections doesn't affect pay or anything like that, so wouldn't it be a really hard case to make?  I mean the administration cannot force a student to not drop a class.

Yes, you do have to prove that your employment situation was adversely affected. Did the change cause a reduction in income, impact promotion/tenure, or otherwise have a material effect on the professor's future?

Okay... so two points:

1) so students are free to change sections at liberty for whatever reason they want (even if the reasons are blatantly discriminatory, eg I don't want a class with a guy in a wheelchair, I don't want a class with a woman, etc;

2) how does that work when students write discriminatory things about the professor in evaluations? It doesn't mean anything, I guess, unless some chair or dean takes an action based on student comments. But what if the chair says... okay, no more 300 person freshman lectures for you. From now on, only small seminars where you won't have to speak very much. Would that meet the standard for ADA? (I chose this example because it would be hard to demonstrate that a freshman lecture is a better assignment than a senior seminar). Or would the ADA come into play even if it was a "different but equal" or "better" reassignment?

Since ADA does allow for adjustments to be made that will make the work suitable and manageable for both the employee and the employer, changing the type of course taught would probably be well within the law. The standard is "reasonable accommodation," not "equal treatment."

[post_functional]

Exactly.  ADA would still apply indirectly if the dean caved in to the intolerant whines.

Well, doesn't the ADA want to know that the party who was discriminated against suffered some sort of detrimental effect?  Having 5 or 6 students change sections doesn't affect pay or anything like that, so wouldn't it be a really hard case to make?  I mean the administration cannot force a student to not drop a class.

True.  The real problem is if the prof gets dinged in a review because students can't tolerate the prof's disability.

[spyzowin]

Exactly.  ADA would still apply indirectly if the dean caved in to the intolerant whines.

Well, doesn't the ADA want to know that the party who was discriminated against suffered some sort of detrimental effect?  Having 5 or 6 students change sections doesn't affect pay or anything like that, so wouldn't it be a really hard case to make?  I mean the administration cannot force a student to not drop a class.

True.  The real problem is if the prof gets dinged in a review because students can't tolerate the prof's disability.

That's the real issue, isn't it? The students can't be stopped. I guess the chair would have to have those questions that could be poisoned by the disability excluded, or have the comments voided out.

[post_functional]

It's one of those cases where there is a flaw in the system and one has to trust that reasonable people will come to reasonable conclusions.  Hopefully there are reasonable people in place.

[madhatter]

Exactly.  ADA would still apply indirectly if the dean caved in to the intolerant whines.

Well, doesn't the ADA want to know that the party who was discriminated against suffered some sort of detrimental effect?  Having 5 or 6 students change sections doesn't affect pay or anything like that, so wouldn't it be a really hard case to make?  I mean the administration cannot force a student to not drop a class.

Yes, you do have to prove that your employment situation was adversely affected. Did the change cause a reduction in income, impact promotion/tenure, or otherwise have a material effect on the professor's future?

Okay... so two points:

1) so students are free to change sections at liberty for whatever reason they want (even if the reasons are blatantly discriminatory, eg I don't want a class with a guy in a wheelchair, I don't want a class with a woman, etc;

2) how does that work when students write discriminatory things about the professor in evaluations? It doesn't mean anything, I guess, unless some chair or dean takes an action based on student comments. But what if the chair says... okay, no more 300 person freshman lectures for you. From now on, only small seminars where you won't have to speak very much. Would that meet the standard for ADA? (I chose this example because it would be hard to demonstrate that a freshman lecture is a better assignment than a senior seminar). Or would the ADA come into play even if it was a "different but equal" or "better" reassignment?

Again -- it's not what the students do, it's what the university (and its employees) do. Students can't change course sections by themselves; a university employee has to make the decision to allow it.