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Author Topic: Help - emailed draft response to student  (Read 3187 times)
post_functional
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« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2010, 02:08:12 AM »

I wonder if her enthusiasm and passion toward the field would be more evident if she wasn't dragged down in the background of her emotional life by a dysfunctional family in the first place.
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mystictechgal
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« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2010, 04:48:47 PM »

O.K., so she said she "hated" x technique.  Did she use it, anyway?  When using it, did she do so carefully and properly?  She said she didn't like to read papers.  Did she read them anyway?  Could she analyze them and discuss them intelligently?  Was she prepared?

I don't know of anyone who doesn't, at some point, have to do something as part of their job that they don't like doing.  And, I'm not sure that it's fair, or even acceptable, to hold the fact that they don't like something against them, so long as they are conscientious about doing it, anyway.  Particularly, if they do it without constantly whining about it or trying to get out of doing it.  You haven't said she was a whiner, or that she tried to shirk her responsibilities in these areas, just that she shared her likes and dislikes with you.  I'm not seeing where the problem is.

As for her desire to escape her family?  It's none of your business why she wants to work in her chosen field during the summer instead of taking a job at Burger King.  You're just being asked to testify to the fact that she can do the job.  From what you've said, she can.  Even better, she evidently has the maturity and dedication necessary to do the job in spite of there being portions of it she personally dislikes.  I dunno.  I'd have loved to have an employee like that on my team.

Now, if she was a whiner and/or a shirker that's a different situation.  But, if either of those were the case I can't imagine why you'd say you could write a positive letter for her in the first place. 

Consider this: She isn't likely to develop any additional passion for her field if she's shut out of working in it.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 04:51:44 PM by mystictechgal » Logged

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frogfactory
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« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2010, 05:08:33 PM »

@mystictechgirl - A big part of the problem is that she was not very good at labwork, and needed constant supervision even for the single, very simple technique she was using.  I've trained a lot of people in laboratory techniques in my time, and this student really did lack aptitude, and did not have a careful or methodical approach. 

She also had something of an attitude, which I put down to just being young.  There was often 'oh godding' and eyerolling when I'd talk with her about setting up the day's experiments.  She had trouble reading the single review paper I sent her about what we do in the lab, and almost certainly never read anything else.  I recall a conversation with her in which I explained why [technique] is a good approach to the problem her project was attacking, but that if she comes across other interesting techniques in papers she's reading for background that she thinks might fit, we could talk about whether we could try those easily in the lab set-up we have.  She laughed and said something along the lines of "Oh yeah, like I read papers".

I'm beginning to wonder indeed why I agreed to write the letter at all.  She does indeed do well academically, but it's not like I've ever taught her in a for-credit class setting.  And I do think she's smart and a nice person, despite some heavy attitude, but just not that good around the lab.

Looks like it's too late now, though.
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post_functional
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« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2010, 05:27:39 PM »

In the past two days you've attributed motives to a student you have no right to attribute, because you're not a mind-reader; you've passed judgment on all parents who make a parenting choice you personally wouldn't make; and you've attributed negative feedback you've been getting to unfair American jingoism on the fora.  Your student may be given a pass for having attitude because she's young; pray tell, what's your excuse? 

I say write the best, glowing letter you can possibly muster.  Not because you blundered (though you did), but because you could start approaching others from a place of a little more understanding and acknowledgement that we all have our foibles, wherever we come from and whatever stage in life we're at.
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frogfactory
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« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2010, 05:34:26 PM »

In the past two days you've attributed motives to a student you have no right to attribute, because you're not a mind-reader; you've passed judgment on all parents who make a parenting choice you personally wouldn't make; and you've attributed negative feedback you've been getting to unfair American jingoism on the fora.  Your student may be given a pass for having attitude because she's young; pray tell, what's your excuse? 

Fair enough, although the first of these is not true - the student was quite candid about her motives in many conversations.  Mind reading not required.
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kedves
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« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2010, 05:53:28 PM »

This is a difficult sort of letter to write, but it will bother you until you get a draft done.  Maybe it would help to start by making a list of words you could honestly use (academic achievement, work ethic, competent, agreeable?) and a list of those you can't honestly use in the context of research (enthusiasm, initiative, self-directed?). 

Work with it, show it to her, send it out, and let things happen as they may.  If she gets into the program, great.  If she doesn't get into the program, it sounds as if she won't be devastated.  But if does mean more to her than she lets on, then she needs to either make more effort to find opportunities that match her skills or learn how to "do" enthusiasm, willingness, initiative, etc.  That's a big part of life, putting our best effort into the areas that are important to us.  I don't think you should write a bad letter, but you don't want to lie, either.  I've written letters of this type and have to remind myself that the student's well-being is not my responsibility; I only play a part and it's a part I have to balance against other values. 
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frogfactory
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« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2010, 06:18:25 PM »

I like your list idea, kedves.  That's  very helpful, thanks.
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frogfactory
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« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2010, 11:06:11 AM »

That was both easier and worse than I thought.  The 'recommendation form' as it turned out didn't actually include space for a statement or letter.  It mainly consisted of tick boxes asking to rate the student on specific descriptors like 'initiative/independence', 'academic ability', 'motivation', where 1 is 'below average' and 5 is 'one of the best I have seen in the course of my career'.  I was generous but I think truthful, but I couldn't give out any 5s, which I'm sure are likely to be a requirement for a prestigious programme like this one.  I console myself with the probable fact that the refusal of our PI to fill in the rec probably killed her application before my non-stellar evaluation of her did, as a lowly PhD student who worked with her for just a semester.
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kedves
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« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2010, 11:41:05 AM »

Even though you like her, you wouldn't want her to take the spot of someone better fit for it.  But I know it is hard.
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frogfactory
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« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2010, 11:52:28 AM »

Yeah, exactly.  Time to move on and stop feeling guilty.
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