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frogfactory
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« on: February 07, 2010, 10:28:58 PM » |
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I just emailed this to an UG who worked for me in the lab for a couple of months: Hey (Chica),
I've been thinking about your reference letter. While I can of course write you a letter that will be 100% positive, I'm concerned that I cant say much with regard to your enthusiasm for the lab or research in general, and I don't want to wind up damning you with faint praise. If you can ask other referees that might be able to write you more unreservedly good LoRs, it might be good to contact them. Otherwise, I'm still happy to write you a letter, but please be aware that it will focus more on your academic ability than your aptitude for lab work.
I'm saying this as a friend as well as a colleague. I very much believe in you as a talented student, but I do get the feeling that research is not a matter of passion or vocation for you as much as a means to stay away from a dysfunctional family over the summer break.
Frog While this is 100% true, I was working on more politic phrasing. Advice on damage limitation?
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At the end of the day, sometimes you just have to masturbate in the bathroom.
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msparticularity
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« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2010, 10:33:35 PM » |
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Possible alternative language:
"I feel that I can do an excellent job of discussing your academic abilities, and can write you a strong recommendation for those. However, I cannot provide a similarly strong assessment of your commitment to, or interest in, research. Is there someone else who might be able to do a better job of addressing this area? If so, I would not be at all offended if you would prefer to have that person write for you."
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"Once admit that the sole verifiable or fruitful object of knowledge is the particular set of changes that generate the object of study...and no intelligible question can be asked about what, by assumption, lies outside." John Dewey
"Be particular." Jill Conner Browne
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crowie
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« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2010, 10:37:06 PM » |
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I don't think it's so bad. The last sentence was the bluntest. As for damage control, I don't know that there is much you can do at this point. If it were me, I would wait for the student's reply rather than try to "fix" things with more words/emails.
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helpful
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« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2010, 10:37:42 PM » |
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I agree with the first response. The line about the dysfunctional family doesn't seem to fit a response to a request for a reference letter. (Even if the line is true).
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« Last Edit: February 07, 2010, 10:38:13 PM by helpful »
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barred_owl
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« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2010, 10:44:15 PM » |
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Is the LOR for a grad school admission?
It's good that you were honest with her about your assessment of her passion for research. Since we don't know the student at all, it's hard to know how she might take the message. We also don't know the full dynamic of your interactions and friendship with her, which makes it hard to predict from afar what her reaction might be. That said, if she's overly sensitive, she might feel a little stung by the last clause of your last sentence ("...as much as a means to stay away from your dysfunctional family..."). It sounds a little too personal, at least the way I read it.
At this point, if you've already sent the message, about all you can do is wait for her response. If she was hurt by it, you probably should apologize and make sure to reiterate your admiration of her academic skills and your appreciation of your relationship with her. You might also have a draft of the letter you would write in which you praise her academic ability so that she understands what such a letter might look like, and can decide whether or not she wants you to send it.
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...I can't help rooting for the underdog underbird.
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frogfactory
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« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2010, 10:51:09 PM » |
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It's for a summer research studenship How's this? Hey (Chica)
I accidentally sent the below while working on a more sensitive way to state my concerns. If you would like me to send a letter, I would be happy to share with you what I intend to send to ensure that you're happy with it.
I apologise for any hurt feelings I may have caused. I'm sincere when I say that I believe in you as a great student and that any assessment I give of you in a LoR will be be wholly positive.
All the best
Frog
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At the end of the day, sometimes you just have to masturbate in the bathroom.
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helpful
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« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2010, 10:54:02 PM » |
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I don't know why you shifted to sending the letter of recommendation. I would just apologize for the personal comment.
Plus, get rid of the "Hey". We ask that students not be 'personal', so we should keep being professional as well.
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flamglam
Junior member
 
Posts: 80
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2010, 10:56:11 PM » |
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Had it been me in your position, I would have attempted to deliver that message in person or via phone - you never know when written communication will find its way into a file. I agree that the student needed to get the message you conveyed, but it's unfortunate that the means of delivery may be considered overly harsh by the recipient, depending on his/her temperment.
Without sounding too preachy, it's just best to put as little as possible in writing. Verbal stuff is just hearsay, but it's hard to deny a paper trail. I've learned that lesson only through hard and bitter experience prior to becoming a grad student, but it's one I've never forgotten.
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frogfactory
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2010, 10:57:43 PM » |
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I have a fairly informal relationship with this student, which I think may be related to why she forgot about professionalism in the lab and talked with me about her reasons for doing this work, so 'hey' generally is okay but I will fix it in this case.
On preview @flamglam: Student is out of the country this semester.
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« Last Edit: February 07, 2010, 10:58:54 PM by frogfactory »
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At the end of the day, sometimes you just have to masturbate in the bathroom.
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jerseyjay
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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2010, 11:24:09 PM » |
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Once, one of my supervisors accidentally sent a real negative report about me to me, instead of to his supervisor. He followed it with an email explaining that while he hadn't meant to send the email to me, he still thought it was an accurate reflection of my work. (Of course, done too often, this is a perfect passive-aggressive move.)
I would suggest something of the same: I accidentally emailed you the previous note without having had the chance to revise and edit it. I apologize for any distress the email may have caused; I would have preferred to have phrased it differently. However, the bottom line remains the same.
Also, I absolutely think it is the responsibility of somebody to honestly indicate that it might be best to seek somebody else to write a letter. (I have tried this with my undergraduate students--while I will be happy to write a letter for you, it might be more valuable if somebody whose class you actually passed write a letter--and sometimes they just don't get the hint.)
That being said, I am not even sure I agree with or understand the last line of the email. Of course, I do not know the student, but really, who cares what her motivation is, so long as she can do the work well. (Although, I also found the email somewhat contradictory: is it aptitude or enthusiasm she lacks? How can you have academic ability without aptitude?) Wanting to avoid her dysfunctional family is also not counterposed to wanting to do research.
Why do I do research? A. I genuinely enjoy it. B. It helps make it less likely I starve or sleep on the street. C. It gets me out the house so my SO and I don't fight incessantly. D. It gives me something to do to avoid dying of boredom. E. All of the above.
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caravaggiojr82
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2010, 11:49:43 PM » |
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I have a fairly informal relationship with this student, which I think may be related to why she forgot about professionalism in the lab and talked with me about her reasons for doing this work, so 'hey' generally is okay but I will fix it in this case.
On preview @flamglam: Student is out of the country this semester.
Tough break that the student is out of the country. I was going to suggest to you that email may not have been the best way to communicate such sentiments to a student. Face-to-face--that's the way to deliver not-so-nice news, but, as you said, you emailed because you had to. You were inadvertently more candid than you would have liked. I agree with what someone else said about not trying to "fix" anything. In fact, I'd strongly advise against that. You look much worse trying to clean up after yourself than you would if you were to just let it stand. Look, you didn't say anything improper to the student, just blunt. Besides, it's not like you don't feel that way (right?). If that's the way you feel, the student has the right to know (which she now does, warts and all).
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"Of course we could make things more challenging, Lisa, but then the stupider students would be in here complaining, furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation." --Principal Skinner, "The Simpsons"
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bud04
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« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2010, 12:15:00 AM » |
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You may have already thought of this idea but let me suggest it anyway just in case you haven't.
Can you recall the e-mail message so the student won't see it?
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mountainguy
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« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2010, 12:23:26 AM » |
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FF, I agree the note was a bit blunt, but I don't think there's anything further you can say at this point. You've made your concerns clear. If the student seems upset in her e-mail reply, you can clarify your remarks then if necessary. If the student isn't upset, no harm done.
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plebeian
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« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2010, 12:24:06 AM » |
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You were inadvertently more candid than you would have liked. I agree with what someone else said about not trying to "fix" anything. In fact, I'd strongly advise against that. You look much worse trying to clean up after yourself than you would if you were to just let it stand. Look, you didn't say anything improper to the student, just blunt. Besides, it's not like you don't feel that way (right?). If that's the way you feel, the student has the right to know (which she now does, warts and all).
Chime. I can imagine my research advisor sending me a frank email like this. Even if it's not par in your relationship to be this candid, it's not out of bounds. If the student wasn't offended or was only very slightly miffed by the first email, an apology email would only suggest that there was malice in the first that she didn't detect. I'd leave it be.
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« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 12:25:22 AM by plebeian »
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phlegmatic
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« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2010, 10:01:18 AM » |
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You may have already thought of this idea but let me suggest it anyway just in case you haven't.
Can you recall the e-mail message so the student won't see it?
How do you recall an email message? I have the gmail app that lets me look over an email for about 10 seconds after hitting "send" in case I want to retract it, but I haven't heard of recalling an entire email message. Sorry for the OT post.
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